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Old 01-23-2018, 04:51 PM   #381
Chris Rice
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
Default Re: Rick's thoughts on Talents & Wiz / Hero balance.

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Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
Hi Chris,
So you didn't use the "Recovery From Exhaustion" rules on page 39 of Adv. Wizard? Did your wizards power their spells with damage (like in the microgames) or from some other system?

Warm regards, Rick.
I early on split attributes into Strength and Constitution and had Wizards use CON to power spells. This was better than using Strength and prevented "Conan the Wizard" but still led to Wizards being tougher than I liked. I then added Magic Points as a seperate attribute to power spells and that gave me the effect I wanted, which was Wizards that had high INT, reasonable DEX but wouldn't waste time on STR/CON as they were more interested in casting spells which required Magic Points to fuel them.
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Old 01-23-2018, 05:01 PM   #382
Rick_Smith
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
Default Chris' system of powering spells

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Originally Posted by Chris Rice View Post
I early on split attributes into Strength and Constitution ... I then added Magic Points as a seperate attribute to power spells and that gave me the effect I wanted ...
Hi Chris, thanks for the quick reply.
Just out of curiosity, how quickly did the magic points recover after they were used to power spells?

Warm regards, Rick.
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Old 01-23-2018, 05:10 PM   #383
Chris Rice
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
Default Re: Chris' system of powering spells

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Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
Hi Chris, thanks for the quick reply.
Just out of curiosity, how quickly did the magic points recover after they were used to power spells?

Warm regards, Rick.
I'm pretty sure it was something like 1 point per hour, but in any case all would be recovered with a day of rest.
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Old 01-24-2018, 06:38 PM   #384
Rick_Smith
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
Default Contests between characters in TFT.

This is something I think the new TFT needs, but Steve Jackson has suggested he might get rid of rolling more or less than 3 dice, so my version won't work.

The rpg Firefly has a sweet system where you roll several polyhedral dice where you want to get as high a total as possible. Various mechanical and roleplaying things can allow you to roll bonus dice (but you only keep the highest two dice which keeps the total in a fairly tight range).

Several other rpg's have contests built into the base rules.

GURPS kinda has this, but it is awkward.

But there are many times in TFT I would like to have someone roll vs DX to be sneaky and someone else needs to roll vs IQ to notice them.

In my campaign, if the guy being sneaky rolls more dice (e.g he rolls 5vsDX to sneak really well), the guy rolling vs IQ also has to roll more dice.

For example of how this works, see my article on improving the economics of Battle of Wills.

https://tft.brainiac.com/RicksTFT/GM...illsInTFT.html

https://tft.brainiac.com/RicksTFT/title.html
// The root to my web published rules.

But however it done, I think that the core rules of TFT need to handle direct contests between figures. It will make writing rules for many other subsystems of the game much easier.

Warm regards, Rick
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Old 01-25-2018, 01:59 AM   #385
Rick_Smith
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
Default Make all dice rolls 3 dice - keep variance high.

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Originally Posted by Steve Jackson View Post
I wonder if perhaps the "roll more dice for more difficulty" mechanic should be done away with entirely, in favor of stat penalties.

When you roll 4 dice the result is very often going to be within a few points of 14.

When you roll 5d, the significant majority of results will be from 16 to 19. The bell curve gets way steeper and most uncertainty is lost. Larger numbers of dice are more predictable yet.

Stat penalties, on the other hand, keep the familiar 3d bell curve the same and move its center point. Much less predictable.
Hi Steve, everyone.
One way of looking at adding a die to the roll is it is equal to a 3.5 point modifier to the roll. (Ignoring the reduced variance of higher number of dice which Steve mentions above.) However, in my campaign small changes to the probability of success are handled with modifiers to the rolls. Whereas big changes to the 'problem space' are handled by changing the number of dice. In some ways, this makes it easier to remember modifiers.

That said, the GM has to memorize the auto-hit : auto-miss numbers for other number of dice. So that adds to the learning curve for GM's. And having two subsystems in a game that do similar things is not parsimonious design.

All that said, I have to confess I like that TFT sometimes rolls 5vsDX. I used these rules in my contest rules, and have mastered the memorization needed to use them. When I say, it is 8vsST to knock down this door, seems more interesting than saying that there is a -16 modifier to the roll. Not rolling 4vsDX to avoid a trap, would seem a lot less like TFT to me.

Not an easy question.

Warm regards, Rick.
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Old 01-25-2018, 03:09 AM   #386
JLV
 
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Location: Arizona
Default Re: Make all dice rolls 3 dice - keep variance high.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
Hi Steve, everyone.
One way of looking at adding a die to the roll is it is equal to a 3.5 point modifier to the roll. (Ignoring the reduced variance of higher number of dice which Steve mentions above.) However, in my campaign small changes to the probability of success are handled with modifiers to the rolls. Whereas big changes to the 'problem space' are handled by changing the number of dice. In some ways, this makes it easier to remember modifiers.

That said, the GM has to memorize the auto-hit : auto-miss numbers for other number of dice. So that adds to the learning curve for GM's. And having two subsystems in a game that do similar things is not parsimonious design.

All that said, I have to confess I like that TFT sometimes rolls 5vsDX. I used these rules in my contest rules, and have mastered the memorization needed to use them. When I say, it is 8vsST to knock down this door, seems more interesting than saying that there is a -16 modifier to the roll. Not rolling 4vsDX to avoid a trap, would seem a lot less like TFT to me.

Not an easy question.

Warm regards, Rick.
I'm with Rick on this one.
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Old 01-25-2018, 04:27 AM   #387
Chris Rice
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
Default Re: Contests between characters in TFT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
This is something I think the new TFT needs, but Steve Jackson has suggested he might get rid of rolling more or less than 3 dice, so my version won't work.

The rpg Firefly has a sweet system where you roll several polyhedral dice where you want to get as high a total as possible. Various mechanical and roleplaying things can allow you to roll bonus dice (but you only keep the highest two dice which keeps the total in a fairly tight range).

Several other rpg's have contests built into the base rules.

GURPS kinda has this, but it is awkward.

But there are many times in TFT I would like to have someone roll vs DX to be sneaky and someone else needs to roll vs IQ to notice them.

In my campaign, if the guy being sneaky rolls more dice (e.g he rolls 5vsDX to sneak really well), the guy rolling vs IQ also has to roll more dice.

For example of how this works, see my article on improving the economics of Battle of Wills.

https://tft.brainiac.com/RicksTFT/GM...illsInTFT.html

https://tft.brainiac.com/RicksTFT/title.html
// The root to my web published rules.

But however it done, I think that the core rules of TFT need to handle direct contests between figures. It will make writing rules for many other subsystems of the game much easier.

Warm regards, Rick
The "contest" mechanic is central to the way I came to play TFT. Instead of just rolling against an Attribute like DX in isolation, I compared the scores of the opponents. So if both have the same DX in a fight they each have a 50% chance to hit (hit on a 10 or less). Where there is a difference in scores, if one has DX14 and one has DX10 for example, the higher has a 12 chance and the lower an 8 chance, and so on. If the target is not actively resisting, like a locked door, I'd assign a value to contest against; so for a standard door I'd assign a 10, a heavy door 13 and so on.

It's also simple to compare different attributes. So in the example you gave just compare the sneaking characters DX with the watching characters IQ to see if he is spotted/heard.

For harder rolls (4d equivalent) I'd set the value at 13/14 and for very hard rolls (5d equivalent) I'd set it at 17/18. This approach does away with the need for rolling any number of dice other than 3, although I have to admit I do like rolling lots of dice. It also means there's no need to remember different numbers for automatic successes and failures since you're always using 3d6.

Last edited by Chris Rice; 01-25-2018 at 06:26 AM. Reason: Additional explanation
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Old 01-25-2018, 02:22 PM   #388
tbeard1999
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
Default Re: Contests between characters in TFT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
But however it done, I think that the core rules of TFT need to handle direct contests between figures. It will make writing rules for many other subsystems of the game much easier.

Warm regards, Rick
One of the more elegant opposed roll systems (in my opinion) is in Pendragon. In that game, you rolled a d20, trying to roll a skill/attribute or less to succeed. If opposed, the other figure would do the same. The winner is whichever figure (a) succeeded in rolling the skill/attribute or less and (b) rolled the *highest* number. As I recall, if you rolled the exact target number, you got a special success. Combat was an opposed roll.

I'm not sure if this approach would work with TFT (particularly mapping it to 3d6), but I thought I'd mention it.
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Old 01-25-2018, 03:07 PM   #389
JohnPaulB
 
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Location: Portland, Maine
Default Re: Contests between characters in TFT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Rice View Post
The "contest" mechanic is central to the way I came to play TFT. Instead of just rolling against an Attribute like DX in isolation, I compared the scores of the opponents. So if both have the same DX in a fight they each have a 50% chance to hit (hit on a 10 or less).
This means your opponent needs to know what your DX is. What if I don't want him to know what my DX is?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Rice View Post
If the target is not actively resisting, like a locked door, I'd assign a value to contest against; so for a standard door I'd assign a 10, a heavy door 13 and so on.
ITL Page 45 "CHOPPING THE DOOR DOWN. A regular door has a ST of
30". Far more simpler to just hack at the door till its down to 0 hit points. I think this Opposed Challenge concept works best with something that has a will to fight your challenge. If the door was a living entity (like an Ego Sword), it might be able to do something about your hacking at it.

I am in favor of keeping the adding a die for making the difficulty greater. I also am in favor of keeping the game a d6 game.

I am in favor of keeping the rulebooks nearly the same, but with small fixes to whatever SJ thinks is useful.

I am also in favor of having an ALTERNATE RULESBOOK with many of the variations that this TFT forums are cultivating. These alternate rules should be vetted with logic and playtesting, of course. But the ALTERNATE RULEBOOK would be a tool kit that you either just plug into the Standardize Core Game or pops out something that is not liked and puts in the tool kit part.

Then when you play at a convention you could say. Standard Core rules with ALTERNATE C Rules, using a D20 dice system. If the players just can't handle that, they won't play or you would have to play the Standard Game.

- Hail Melee

Last edited by JohnPaulB; 01-25-2018 at 03:23 PM. Reason: adding tag line
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Old 01-25-2018, 04:57 PM   #390
Chris Rice
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: London Uk, but originally from Scotland
Default Re: Contests between characters in TFT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnPaulB View Post
This means your opponent needs to know what your DX is. What if I don't want him to know what my DX is?



ITL Page 45 "CHOPPING THE DOOR DOWN. A regular door has a ST of
30". Far more simpler to just hack at the door till its down to 0 hit points. I think this Opposed Challenge concept works best with something that has a will to fight your challenge. If the door was a living entity (like an Ego Sword), it might be able to do something about your hacking at it.

I am in favor of keeping the adding a die for making the difficulty greater. I also am in favor of keeping the game a d6 game.

I am in favor of keeping the rulebooks nearly the same, but with small fixes to whatever SJ thinks is useful.

I am also in favor of having an ALTERNATE RULESBOOK with many of the variations that this TFT forums are cultivating. These alternate rules should be vetted with logic and playtesting, of course. But the ALTERNATE RULEBOOK would be a tool kit that you either just plug into the Standardize Core Game or pops out something that is not liked and puts in the tool kit part.

Then when you play at a convention you could say. Standard Core rules with ALTERNATE C Rules, using a D20 dice system. If the players just can't handle that, they won't play or you would have to play the Standard Game.

- Hail Melee
I'm not sure what you mean? Under most circumstances you will know the opponents DX as soon as you cross swords with them. There might be some possibility that a highly skilled opponent could feign lesser skill than they actually possess but there is currently nothing in the rules about that.

As to doors: often there is not time to chop them up, they just need to be immediately broken down. There are rules further up the same page in ITL although I prefer to assign my own difficulty levels when designing a scenario.
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