[Powers] how to make a fetish

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Gef

Now I sell the gadget to some other dude. I'm down 20 points,

No more than if you worked for those 4000 hours making a mundane item and sold it. Are craftsmen being cheated out of their due character points every time they make something? For that matter is everybody cheated out of them whenever they work, enjoy entertainment, or do anything besides sleep or train? What about when they trade points for money?

and he has to spend 20 points on the gadget.

Why? He a) paid money for it and b) acquired it in play.

Originally Posted by B 291

The GM may rule that you have suddenly acquired a new trait – most
often an advantage or a disadvantage – as a consequence of events in the
game: social interaction, combat, divine intervention, etc. This has nothing
to do with bonus points!
When you acquire an advantage this way, write it on your character
sheet and increase your point total by the value of the advantage. You do
not have to pay for it with bonus points.

[Gef]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Why? He a) paid money for it and b) acquired it in play.

Thanks for the quote. I stand corrected. There are still a few steps to take in this approach:

1) Determine the powercrafting skill(s).

2) Determine modifiers to the skill roll, like a penalty for working fast and a bonus for good raw materials.

3) Determine the requirements to use them in certain ways, frex, must have the power to be placed in the item, or must work with someone who does, or must have magical ingredients.

[Justaguy]

I have to agree with Sir Pudding on the issue about spending character points. I never intended to have PC's spend points to make fetishes. It just doesn't suit the setting. On the other hand, Gef does have a point that the rules are not very clear on the subject of crafting 'magic' items using powers.

So I need to work my way around this. This is what I intend to do.

One of the PC's is some kind of shaman binding protection spirits to items permanently (extended duration, permanent). That is, until the item fails to protect the wearer, in which case the item breaks (=condition for extended duration, permanent, see B105 where it also specifies that these rules can lead to abuse). These fetishes are intended to be handed to fellow group members or just te be sold. To control this, I implement the limitations 'only usable once per day' and 'accessibility: only well-crafted, self-made items can be empowered'. These seem like reasonable limitations to avoid things getting out of hand. And if they do, well, spirits are fickle beings, (reflected by the spirit PM) and can decide to withdraw their support to the shaman.

Now, how to simulate this? The easiest way to implement such a power is to work out the point cost of the fetish, and then insert that cost converted to a percentage as an afflicted advantage.
How to stat a fetish? It is an advantage, limited by:
- breakable, DR 4 (wood, bone...), cannot be repaired, SM-8 (about 10 cm), total -35%
- can be stolen, by stealth or trickery, -20%
- terminal condition, common knowledge in the setting (a failed resistance roll destroys the item), -20% (note: this terminal condition will be different for fetishes with other advantages, and the terminal condition might not always be common knowledge, so this figure may vary)
These modifiers add up to -75%, to be applied to the cost of the advantage of the fetish. A 10-point advantage as a fetish costs 2.5 points, a 40-point one costs 10 points. Don't round fractions yet, we will use the unrounded result in our next formula (respectively +25% and +100% for these two examples).

The next formula is the creation of the fetish:
affliction 1 (insert fetish cost here, in %; malediction, no resistance roll, +100%; PM spirit, the ability works by binding minor spirits to the item, -25%; accessibility, requires a small, well-crafted, self-made item, -40%; costs fatigue, 3FP payed by the maker at the moment of creation, -15%; extended duration, permanent, +150%; limited use, the user can only enchant one fetish per day, -40%; preparation required, the user performs a 10-minute ritual to empower the item, -30%). Total cost: +100% + cost of the fetish, where 1 point equals 10%. For our examples, that would be +125% and +200% respectively, making for a [23]-point and a [30]-point power.

I haven't figured out yet how I would let the skill 'create fetish' (Will/H) function in the process, but I'll work something out.

Thank you for reading this far :-)
I think this is an acceptable and more or less adequately-priced power. Of course, it would have to be bought separately for each type of fetish, probably as an alternative ability (Powers, p11) and of course sharing the same 24-hour cooldown.

Some stuff I did is not stated in the RAW, but is not explicitly forbidden either. Most of all, I'm wondering what you think about the idea of using the modified advantage cost in the affliction formula. Does this break any rules, or does it seem more or less correct? Or did I make some other horrible mistake?

[Bruno]

The enhancement value is based on the net cost of the Advantage, not the Gross cost. You absolutely use the modified value. No Afflicting your friends with Cosmic Hardened Forcefield Area Effect Affects Others DR for cheap!

[Justaguy]

Originally Posted by Bruno

The enhancement value is based on the net cost of the Advantage, not the Gross cost. You absolutely use the modified value.

Hm, I'm not sure. Of course I understand my formula is prone to abuse. After all, advantages are given to friends for a discount, and the higher the cost of the basic advantage, the higher the discount. That's why it would need careful monitoring by the GM.
But I don't really see the abuse about the addition of cosmic and other enhancements, because these would of course boost the cost of the fetish accordingly. For example, with cosmic, the fetish would cost +225% (+300% cosmic and -75% from the fetish limitations), turning a 10-point advantage into a 32.5-point fetish, hence +325% in the affliction formula.

As long as the rules remain unclear on the subject, this point will remain open to discussion.

Anyway,supposing you're correct and I should use full cost of the advantage in the formula (I find the RAW quite unclear on the subject), is the rest of the formula correct?
Specifically:
- is the extended duration (permanent) good enough to make the advantage permanent for the target until the terminal condition is triggered, instead of making the afflicted advantage one-shot or a one-minute use (as stated on B36)?
- is the accessibility limitation (requires a small well-crafted, self-made item) appropriate to simulate the fact that the advantage is only conferred to the target through an item (specifically dedicated to this one person), or would an other modifier be more appropriate?

Thank you so much for your input, this is not an easy problem to solve on my own.

[Snaps]

A lot of my players have wanted to do something similar in games I've run (Mostly because a lot of my players were fans of the old Runequest system and its spirit magic).

Here are a few ways we've done it (most of these are off the top of my head without actually having character sheets in front of me, and I modified the first one for how you wanted it to work).

Modular Abilities: Spirit Trapping 20 (Useless Under Stress, -60%; Costs Fatigue, +3, -15%; Limited Use, 1/day, -40%; Physical and Mental, +100%; Requires Will Roll, -5%; PM: Spirit, -25%; Trait Limited: Afflictions with Gadget Limitations, -50%) [18 points]

So this would allow the character do create any type of 10 point affliction or less by first going into the spirit realm and bringing back a spirit to put in the fetish.

Keep in mind that all of the gadget limitations, and the permanent enhancement will need to go on the Affliction you buy with the modular points, not on the above modular advantage itself!

So for example this Shaman could create a fetish to protect from hostile magic:

Affliction 1 (Advantage: Magic Resistance 1, +20%; Permanent, Dispelled when fails to protect, +150% Gadget, Can Be Stolen, -30%; Gadget: Breakable, DR 2, Cannot Repair, -35%; Gadget: Unique, -25%; Contact Agent, -30%) [15 points]

My players used the above but added large Costs Fatigue limitations to them to offset the Advantage Enhancement on the Affliction. This made it a lot more like the standard GURPS magic.

A more powerful version is letting the character summon spirits as allies which he puts into the fetishes.

Modular Abilities: Spirit Trapping 20 (Useless Under Stress, -60%; Physical Only, +50%; PM: Spirit, -25%; Trait Limited: Afflictions with the Advantage: Allies Enhancement, -50%) [18 points]

You'd then use it for something like:

Affliction 1 (Advantage: Unwilling Constant Minion Ally, 100% of starting points, +100%; Permanent, Dispelled when spirit is defeated or destroyed, +150%; Costs Fatigue, +6, -30%; Gadget, Can Be Stolen, -30%; Gadget: Breakable, DR 2, Cannot Repair, -35%; Gadget: Unique, -25%; Contact Agent, -30%) [20 points]

The spirit itself could then have its own affliction to give you powers or abilities, etc.

One player of mine had his own magic system using this sort of method. It went something like:

Modular Abilities: Spirit Trapping 1 to 8 points (Useless Under Stress, -60%; Physical Only, +50%; PM: Spirit, -25%; Trait Limited: Favors with Gadget Limitations, -50%) [2 to 8 points each]

It was a very powerful form of magic IMO. He could summon a spirit and bind it into one of his modular slots. Each spirit could then be used once to perform some action for him (as his Favor). And you can get a spirit with 150% of your points, Special Abilities and No Frequency of Appearance roll for only 8 points!

[Justaguy]

Just a quick reply now, because I need to leave for the rest of the day.
I really loved the Runequest old rules for spirit magic and on first reading, your suggestions look great!

I have time tonight to look into it in detail. I'll post a longer reply then.

[Justaguy]

I've had more time to study everything and I must say, I love it. It's even better than what I had in mind: it suits the flavour of the setting perfectly, and it's both more flexible and cheaper than what I 'd imagined.

I will be using your first version, the core of the formula being the modular ability spirit trapping (cost: 6 per slot + 4 per point) modified by physical and mental, trait limited (afflictions with gadget limitations) and the useless under stress limitation. The other limitations can be picked more freely by the PC.

The two other versions are obviously more powerful and hence more difficult to control. I had already decided not to use spirits as allies some time ago, and the favour idea is outright scary: so much power for so cheap. So I'll not implement those for the time being, but I'll definitely keep them in mind for later use, who knows?

Thank you for introducing me to the modular abilities power, I had never really looked into it in so much detail. Up till now, I had always discarded it as too abstract and too powerful. But I'm starting to see it's possibilities now. Cheers!

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Justaguy

Hm, I'm not sure.

I'm not even sure what you're arguing about, to be honest. I thought I did, but you then said you think I'm wrong and then provided an example that seemed to be agreeing with me. So I'm going to write up an example of what I'm talking about and see if it helps clarify what I mean.

Alice is a wizard with an armor spell: she can give people magical DR.

She gives people DR 6 (equivalent of plate armour) as a full-body force-field that protects them with no chinks in it, even over the eyes, and protects all their equipment.

Bob is a demon: he has a forcefield with exactly the effects of Alice's armor spell, all the time.

Bob's advantage is Damage Resistance 6 (Forcefield, +20%). DR 6 is 30 points, DR 6 with Forcefield is 36 points. Bob pays [36] points.

Alice has Affliction with the Advantage enhancement and the Malediction enhancement (level 1), and the Magical limitation. Malediction 1 is +100%, Magical is -10%. Since Alice afflicts the same advantage that Bob has, her Advantage enhancement is +360%. Base cost for Affliction is 10 points, but with all the enhancements Alices "Afflict Magical Forcefield" spell costs [55] points.

If Charles was a Djinn who had the ability to grant people knowledge of Alice's Afflict Magical Forcefield spell, he'd use the 55 point cost to calculate the cost of his Advantage enhancement.

[Bruno]

Compare Dave the Druid, who has a "Barkskin" spell that gives the target DR 6 with the Tough Skin limitation (an [18] point advantage).

Dave has Affliction with the Advantage enhancement and the Malediction enhancement (level 1), and the Magical limitation. Malediction 1 is +100%, Magical is -10%. Since Dave afflicts DR with Tough Skin, his Advantage enhancement is +180%. Base cost for Affliction is 10 points, but with all the enhancements Dave's "Afflict Barkskin" spell costs [37] points.

Dave's spell isn't as good as Alices, and costs Dave less points because of that.

EDIT: Are you perhaps coming from Hero System? GURPS doesn't have the same sort of Active Points distinction that Hero does, that might be throwing you off.