decoupleing secondary attributes

[onetrikpony]

Sometimes when I'm writing a character it irritates me that Will and Perception are coupled with IQ.

Can someone point me to discussions on the effects and implications of having to buy up secondary attributes separately? I'm having a difficult time finding anything in a search.

[Christopher R. Rice]

See the #1 section here.

[ericthered]

This is a very common house rule most prominently advocated here, on the site of the now (but not then) assistant line editor.

I don't know that I've ever seen a thread dedicated to the subject, but arguments suggesting it are all over this forum, most recently in this thread on IQ being too broad (where it is one of the proposed solutions).

I use this rule extensively myself, and its main effect is that will and per become closer to primary attributes, and "the lookout guy" becomes a useful niche someone goes for instead of having it by virtue of being the techie (or other high IQ character). I love it. The effects give you more varied character types.

[Flyndaran]

It also allows mental talents other than 5 point levels to actually make sense if you keep IQ!'s price at 20 per level.

But it will make all around mental characters a bit more expensive compared to other niches.

[onetrikpony]

Wow!

severing IQ, Will and Per seems to be imperative after reading the other thread.

Are there any arguments against?

Thanks for the replies.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

But it will make all around mental characters a bit more expensive compared to other niches.

Which if you're playing a game that's not 50% combat, just fine, as long as the GM adjusts his point expectations. I wouldn't do DF with that rule in place. Monster Hunters takes it fine if you expand the points, as does action. Mysteries and highly social games practically demand it.

Like any switch, consider its effects on the game you want to play: heavy combat games probably shouldn't use it.

[Flyndaran]

That's what they cost now.

[onetrikpony]

Originally Posted by ericthered

Monster Hunters takes it fine if you expand the points, as does action.

what does 'expand the points' mean?

I'm probably against lowering the cost of IQ once Will and Per are on their own because I like the tension between being able to fight (DX based Character), and being able to do everything else (IQ based Character). I think the actual value of IQ is still 20 when Will and Per are disconnected.

Originally Posted by Hellboy

decouple DX from basic speed, to reflect slow naturally gracebmful beings

I'm having trouble thinking of a slow naturally graceful being that has high DX.

From a design esthetic I like the idea of decoupleing all the attributes but I can't think of any gaming or narrative reason to do that with DX

[Donny Brook]

Originally Posted by onetrikpony

Sometimes when I'm writing a character it irritates me that Will and Perception are coupled with IQ.

Can someone point me to discussions on the effects and implications of having to buy up secondary attributes separately? I'm having a difficult time finding anything in a search.

The two main implications are:

1-IQ is already considered underpriced by many people. Allowing levels of it at 10CP can be seen to make that problem worse.

2-Buying up IQ but leaving Will and Per unimproved can, in some interpretations, create a negative costing item on your character sheet which some people would count against a Disadvantage limit (if there is one).

[mlangsdorf]

Originally Posted by Hellboy

If Per and Will are decoupled then at 5 apiece IQ should be worth 10 and Magery could be cheaper.

The argument is that IQ is undervalued at 10 points per level (with buying down Will and Perception). Decoupling Will and Perception and then reducing the cost of IQ to 10 defeats the purpose.

I'm on my second campaign where I've decoupled IQ, Will, and Perception, and set the value of IQ at 15, Will at 10, and Perception at 10. I like the effects - not every high IQ inventor or wizard type is also perceptive, strong willed character. IQ talents are slightly more common. It's definitely a change I'd recommend.