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Old 11-17-2019, 07:47 AM   #1
Phantasm
 
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Default Need Help Properly Repricing Enchantment Per-Energy Costs

My math is escaping me.

This is a TL4 world. The default magic system has been adjusted so that the most energy an enchanter can put in during a mage-day doing Slow-and-Sure is his full FP + ER, not just 1 energy. (Most mages in general have an energy reserve in addition to their FP for fueling spells.)

Most people work 10 hour days, not 8. (IIRC, the 8 hour workday is a relatively recent development.)

The math so far:

Apprentice enchanter: Average Wealth (x1) ($800/mo)
Journeyman enchanter: Comfortable Wealth (x2) ($1600/mo)
Master enchanter: Wealthy (x5) ($4000/mo)
- Master has up to 5 Apprentices
FP+ER per master enchanter: 20
FP+ER per journeyman enchanter: 15
FP+ER per apprentice enchanter: 10

Work Day: 10 hours
Days/Month: 28
Months/Year: 13
Days/Week: 6
Work Days/Week: 5
Work Days/Month: 23.33

S&S Average Energy/Mage-Day: 15
Q&D Average Daily Casting Cycles: 5.5


At this point, I'm blanking on figuring out exactly how much the per-energy cost would be for both Slow-and-Sure and Quick-and-Dirty enchanting. I'm accepting that S&S will likely be a lot cheaper, which will lend itself to lower prices on magic items; this is not a bug, it's a feature. I just can't seem to work through the math properly.

Help?
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Old 11-17-2019, 07:51 AM   #2
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Default Re: Need Help Properly Repricing Enchantment Per-Energy Costs

I'm little short of time to check it thoroughly (but I definitely want to do it as soon as I get home) but a quick google check told me average sunshine duration in Europe is 7 hours/day, so it might get a little impractical to work 10 hours when there were not cost efficient lighting for night time.
Of course, we're talking about a world where enchanted items are more common, so magical lamps with continual light (which by the way I find very overpriced EP-wise) might be a common place.
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Old 11-17-2019, 09:53 AM   #3
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Need Help Properly Repricing Enchantment Per-Energy Costs

Q&D would be done by 1 Master Enchanter and 5 Apprentices. They have a Q&D limit of 70 so they do all work in 1 hour or less. They do 5 rituals per day and 140 per month. Those 140 rituals need to cover $8000 in salaries.

Each ritual needs to generate $57 which is probably rounded up to $60. You do not price on a per energy basis since all rituals take the same amount of time.

You could calculate a S&S price for a Master Enchnter working alone but he would not generally be rewarded proportionately for producing items at Power 20. So S&S is maybe done by Journeymen. It won't matter if they do it alone or in groups. 2 Journeymen would produce twice as fast but divide the gross income by 2.

So in a month, a journyman puts in 28x 15 energy pts and needs to make $1600 to cover his salary. That can be figured on per point basis but only comes out to a little less than $4 per point. Apprentices would need to charge (round up)$3 per point of energy but Masters would need over $7.

I don't think Masters can compete selling Power 20 Preserve food boxes for twice the proce of Power 15 boxes produced by Apprentices. So your price for S&S is probably $3 per point of energy and there's no incentive to advance past the entry level position in S&S Enchnting (which is probably dominat forr anything over 70 energy points.

You probably eed to change your rules soemhow to make Journymen and Masters better at S&S.
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Old 11-17-2019, 10:31 AM   #4
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Default Re: Need Help Properly Repricing Enchantment Per-Energy Costs

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Originally Posted by Sorenant View Post
a quick google check told me average sunshine duration in Europe is 7 hours/day
Too quick. On the Solstice - the shortest day of the year - London England gets 8 hours of sunlight. Even Oslo Norway gets 6.

Average sunlight is 12 hours per day throughout the year. During the summer that can be 15+ hours per day; during winter it falls to 9 or fewer hours. All depends on the latitude
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Last edited by ericbsmith; 11-17-2019 at 10:34 AM.
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Old 11-17-2019, 10:38 AM   #5
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Default Re: Need Help Properly Repricing Enchantment Per-Energy Costs

Slow and sure if the master enchanter and his 5 minions work 23 days they generate 70 per day

So 1610 in a month

Cost is 8k

8k/1610 and you get 5 per energy

5 is very Pentafriendly and is pleasing to the GURPS Gods
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Old 11-17-2019, 12:44 PM   #6
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Need Help Properly Repricing Enchantment Per-Energy Costs

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Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
Slow and sure if the master enchanter and his 5 minions work 23 days they generate 70 per day

So 1610 in a month

Cost is 8k

8k/1610 and you get 5 per energy

5 is very Pentafriendly and is pleasing to the GURPS Gods
However, to achieve this $5 number you have to follow a deliberately ineffcient proceedure. There's no good reason to Enchant S&S as Master+Apprentices. If you do the Apprentices alone can undercut your price by 40%.

Look at it this way. Journeymen can do 1.5x the work of Apprentices but cost 2x as much to pay. Masters can do the work of two Apprentices but cost 5x as much to pay.
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Old 11-17-2019, 02:09 PM   #7
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Default Re: Need Help Properly Repricing Enchantment Per-Energy Costs

Apprentices cannot directly contribute to enchanting, since you have to know a spell at 15+ to contribute to enchanting. At the very least, you need journeymen enchanters, and they will be quite uncommon because they need Magery 2+. Instead, apprentices will serve as assistants (see below).

Assistants can contribute to the enchanting process by accelerating FP recovery with Lend Energy. They stay out of sight during the hour for enchantment, go help recharge the enchanters after they get done with enchanting, and then go rest. If you had two assistants per enchanter (twelve total), you could could easily do seven rounds of enchanting per day.

At that point, you have twelve assistants ($9600/month), five journeymen ($8,000/month), and one master ($4,000/month), for a total labor cost of $21,600/month. You would also need a rather massive supply of Powerstones to allow for 100 energy per hour, around 50 7-point each enchanter, so 300 7-point powerstones. The total cost of the powerstones would be $300,000, meaning $3,000/month plus $9,600/month for the required guards, for a total monthly cost of $34,200. Groups can attempt to forgo guards, but their stores of powerstones are probably too valuable to do so safely, and the people they are renting the powerstones from would probably insist on guards

What does that translate to? Assuming 22 days a month of work, the group would produce 15,400 energy per month, so $3 per energy point would cover basic costs and allow for a reasonable profit. Of course, that will increase the cost of the Powerstones by $320 each, to a total of $400,000 ($4,000/month), but that only increases costs to $35,200/month, so we can keep the price at $3 per energy point.
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Old 11-17-2019, 02:24 PM   #8
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Default Re: Need Help Properly Repricing Enchantment Per-Energy Costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
What does that translate to? Assuming 22 days a month of work, the group would produce 15,400 energy per month, so $3 per energy point would cover basic costs and allow for a reasonable profit.
There's another group of workers you have forgotten all about: The salesman/brokers. If the Enchanters are going to be working constantly making Enchantments then you will need somebody that can go commission work for them, take payments, purchase materials, purchase items to be enchanted, sell enchanted items, and generally manage the business end of the shop to ensure that the Enchanters are always busy doing what they do best -Enchanting.
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Old 11-17-2019, 03:26 PM   #9
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Default Re: Need Help Properly Repricing Enchantment Per-Energy Costs

True, so I would consider $5 per energy point to be a reasonable retail rate ($3 per energy point from the producer or $4 per energy point for the distributor).
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Old 11-17-2019, 03:30 PM   #10
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Default Re: Need Help Properly Repricing Enchantment Per-Energy Costs

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericbsmith View Post
There's another group of workers you have forgotten all about: The salesman/brokers. If the Enchanters are going to be working constantly making Enchantments then you will need somebody that can go commission work for them, take payments, purchase materials, purchase items to be enchanted, sell enchanted items, and generally manage the business end of the shop to ensure that the Enchanters are always busy doing what they do best -Enchanting.
This!

I usually solve this by doubling the price of the enchantment work plus any components to get a 'fair selling price' for new items or items somehow calling for a 'new item price' (like anything requiring rare spells, higher levels of magery, and whatever else like that).
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