Magic Weapons: Innate Attack vs Signature Gear

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by Maz

In general, if there are cool equipment availeble in campaign, be that magical, ultratech or simply big guns, then it is always much cheaper to get the stuff through signature gear than through Innate Attack.

Not necessarily. Depending on your assumptions as to how much enchantments (or ultratech gear) cost in $, it can easily be the other way around, as the OP found.

[talam]

I think I'm going to go for one point in signature gear = 750 or 1000 energy points. Since Magic is a pretty common thing (think Eberron), it just makes more sense. Should I scale up then the momentary amount of a point of signature gear will yield to accommodate or not? As expensive as the enchantments are themselves, the bonuses tend to not outshine the basic items themselves. Really, enchantments seem to be more of a small boost than the main thing.

I'm liking the idea that one point in signature gear = $2500 or 750/1000 energy points and not dropping magic item costs because it really makes a character's signature gear stand-out and special but I'm trying to find holes in that thought.

[raven_walker]

Originally Posted by talam

I think I'm going to go for one point in signature gear = 750 or 1000 energy points. Since Magic is a pretty common thing (think Eberron), it just makes more sense. Should I scale up then the momentary amount of a point of signature gear will yield to accommodate or not? As expensive as the enchantments are themselves, the bonuses tend to not outshine the basic items themselves. Really, enchantments seem to be more of a small boost than the main thing.

I'm liking the idea that one point in signature gear = $2500 or 750/1000 energy points and not dropping magic item costs because it really makes a character's signature gear stand-out and special but I'm trying to find holes in that thought.

I've used similar costs for characters with the "inherited magical sword" schtick, and it hasn't caused any problems - as long as you monitor what magic items the characters are taking. (Most weapon enchantments aren't all that powerful, but some spell-based items could be.)

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by talam

I think I'm going to go for one point in signature gear = 750 or 1000 energy points. Since Magic is a pretty common thing (think Eberron), it just makes more sense. Should I scale up then the momentary amount of a point of signature gear will yield to accommodate or not? As expensive as the enchantments are themselves, the bonuses tend to not outshine the basic items themselves. Really, enchantments seem to be more of a small boost than the main thing.

I'm liking the idea that one point in signature gear = $2500 or 750/1000 energy points and not dropping magic item costs because it really makes a character's signature gear stand-out and special but I'm trying to find holes in that thought.

If purchased magic items are as common as all that, it's hard to see how that can be if the costs aren't somehow reduced. Who's buying them all?

Like I said before, it's basically a factor of 10 you're looking at. As GM, you're more than free to say that the limits are higher for Quick & Dirty Enchantment, or that Slow & Sure Enchantment allows the input of 10 energy points per enchanter per day rather than 1; if enchanters' wages remain the same, you should thereby get 1/10 the time and therefore 1/10 the cost for most items.

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

If purchased magic items are as common as all that, it's hard to see how that can be if the costs aren't somehow reduced. Who's buying them all?

Like I said before, it's basically a factor of 10 you're looking at. As GM, you're more than free to say that the limits are higher for Quick & Dirty Enchantment, or that Slow & Sure Enchantment allows the input of 10 energy points per enchanter per day rather than 1; if enchanters' wages remain the same, you should thereby get 1/10 the time and therefore 1/10 the cost for most items.

My suggestion is to allow a whole bunch of modifiers for ritual casting. This lets you put more people into the ritual circle, which raises the level you can do Q&D enchantment at.

Additionally, let unskilled spectators contribute energy to Slow & Sure, as per Ceremonial Magic. Voila, the land of +1 swords.

[talam]

Originally Posted by vitruvian

If purchased magic items are as common as all that, it's hard to see how that can be if the costs aren't somehow reduced. Who's buying them all?

The way I saw Signature gear is that it isn't just stuff that you just happened to buy, there's usually a story behind how you got it ranging from "You inherited from [insert being name here]" to "You killed [insert being name here] and took it", all circumstances where the character didn't really pay for it. And, even if they did simply pay for, if it's signature gear, they've obviously used it a lot, to the point where the cost they paid is covered by crazy stuff they did before.

However, I can kinda see where you're getting at. If I'm going for a more magic item abundant setting, it really does make sense to drop the cost of enchantment by tweaking enchantment rules. Since I'm kind of going for an Eberron level of magic abundance, I'd probably do something like increase available assistants for Q&D enchantment and maybe allowing 2-3 energy points per day for S&S. Large abundance of small things like magic street lamps, while magic swords are more common but still sorta novel.

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

My suggestion is to allow a whole bunch of modifiers for ritual casting. This lets you put more people into the ritual circle, which raises the level you can do Q&D enchantment at.

What kind of modifiers would you suggest?

[nick012000]

I'll point out the rules for magical production lines in Fantasy, in the Technology and Magic section.

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by talam

The way I saw Signature gear is that it isn't just stuff that you just happened to buy, there's usually a story behind how you got it ranging from "You inherited from [insert being name here]" to "You killed [insert being name here] and took it", all circumstances where the character didn't really pay for it. And, even if they did simply pay for, if it's signature gear, they've obviously used it a lot, to the point where the cost they paid is covered by crazy stuff they did before.

The classic example is Indiana Jones' hat and whip. Sig gear is generally has to be something that you can buy, stuff that's commonly available, IMO. Even if you didn't actually buy it.

Originally Posted by talam

However, I can kinda see where you're getting at. If I'm going for a more magic item abundant setting, it really does make sense to drop the cost of enchantment by tweaking enchantment rules. Since I'm kind of going for an Eberron level of magic abundance, I'd probably do something like increase available assistants for Q&D enchantment and maybe allowing 2-3 energy points per day for S&S. Large abundance of small things like magic street lamps, while magic swords are more common but still sorta novel.

What kind of modifiers would you suggest?

Depends on the flavor of your setting. Assuming something vaguely western, astrological modifiers, modifiers for sympathy, correspondence, and names. Aspected mana, powerful locations, sacrifices, etc. Check Thaumatology pg 82, "Mandatory and Significant Modifiers" if you have it.

So long as you only allow it for ceremonial castings, it means that large groups of mages can cast very very powerful ritual spells if given enough prep time, while still retaining a somewhat normal level of quick casting.