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Old 05-19-2018, 05:26 AM   #21
weby
 
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Default Re: Equal race point totals

In my games I tend to use races that are "even" point values to either a few values or to a multiple of "package prices" to ease character creation.

In my current fantasy campaign I have two "levels" of races: +10 total points and +65 total points. For character creation the 10 point races then get 55 extra points in terms of attributes and an extra noncombat profession and after that the rest of the character creation is the same regardless of what of the two you use.

In my Star Rangers setting I use +0/+150/+300 points races as some of the races are truly powerful and the "main power" of all characters is either one 300 point package or two 150 point ones and the race then replaces either a 300 point or one of the 150 point packages.

In one other setting I use 25/50/75 point races as the character creation is made in 25/50/100 point groups from action/psionics. So the race will then replace 1-3 25 point blocks from such.
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Old 05-19-2018, 05:43 PM   #22
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Default Re: Equal race point totals

Assuming equal character points (for the ENTIRE character; race, "class," background, etc.), all a racial template is are the advantages/skills you were going to pick anyways, plus disadvantages you have no choice in selecting, plus extra stuff you HAVE to pay for. Really, the more detailed you make a race, the more you're forcing players to spend on some things they don't want.

I prefer racial templates to be minimalist guidelines, but with a few things to make them special. For instance, if the campaign allows a maximum of DX 16 at the start, maybe elves can buy +1. Or give talents, that make their skill set cheaper (or effectively cost the same, but can then buy background skills cheap). Or have some cinematic advantages or skills that others can't access.

It's the stuff that makes them unique that makes a race. Otherwise, they're no different than a human with the same character build.

Oh, and I prefer to see templates falling into selected levels (e.g., multiples of 25, so an elf might be 25, an ogre 50, etc.).
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Old 05-23-2018, 04:49 PM   #23
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Default Re: Equal race point totals

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pragmatic View Post
I prefer racial templates to be minimalist guidelines, but with a few things to make them special. For instance, if the campaign allows a maximum of DX 16 at the start, maybe elves can buy +1. Or give talents, that make their skill set cheaper (or effectively cost the same, but can then buy background skills cheap). Or have some cinematic advantages or skills that others can't access.

It's the stuff that makes them unique that makes a race. Otherwise, they're no different than a human with the same character build.
I actually really like this idea and have expanded upon it some. For instance, I've made an elf race that could buy select wildcardskills as mundane skills, and another race that had access to Imbuments as a racial upgrade (and thus without any power modifier).

Thanks for the responses, the more I think on it the more that the extreme value being forced on each race might be too much.
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Old 05-23-2018, 05:00 PM   #24
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Default Re: Equal race point totals

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Originally Posted by Pragmatic View Post
Assuming equal character points (for the ENTIRE character; race, "class," background, etc.), all a racial template is are the advantages/skills you were going to pick anyways, plus disadvantages you have no choice in selecting, plus extra stuff you HAVE to pay for. Really, the more detailed you make a race, the more you're forcing players to spend on some things they don't want.

I prefer racial templates to be minimalist guidelines, but with a few things to make them special. For instance, if the campaign allows a maximum of DX 16 at the start, maybe elves can buy +1. Or give talents, that make their skill set cheaper (or effectively cost the same, but can then buy background skills cheap). Or have some cinematic advantages or skills that others can't access.

It's the stuff that makes them unique that makes a race. Otherwise, they're no different than a human with the same character build.

Oh, and I prefer to see templates falling into selected levels (e.g., multiples of 25, so an elf might be 25, an ogre 50, etc.).
Not saying your approach is wrong, though it's not for me...but you seem to be missing the basic (and long-standing) selling point of non-human races providing exotic traits that you couldn't just pick anyway.

(Also, for some, the quality that as a template it can let you wind up with total Disadvantages in excess of the asserted Disadvantage limit.)
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Old 05-23-2018, 05:22 PM   #25
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Default Re: Equal race point totals

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Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
Not saying your approach is wrong, though it's not for me...but you seem to be missing the basic (and long-standing) selling point of non-human races providing exotic traits that you couldn't just pick anyway.
I'm no longer surprised how much players will pick a race just because of a trait they can not get, regardless of what other traits (especially disads) apply. Flight is a popular one, but so can be Innate Attacks, Penetrating Vision, and Shapeshifting.
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Old 05-23-2018, 05:33 PM   #26
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Default Re: Equal race point totals

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Originally Posted by kirbwarrior View Post
I'm no longer surprised how much players will pick a race just because of a trait they can not get, regardless of what other traits (especially disads) apply. Flight is a popular one, but so can be Innate Attacks, Penetrating Vision, and Shapeshifting.
I'm not even surprised by the number of players who pick a particular race because "I always play elves" or "this is essentially a Space Elf, right?"
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Old 05-23-2018, 06:07 PM   #27
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Default Re: Equal race point totals

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Originally Posted by kirbwarrior View Post
I'm no longer surprised how much players will pick a race just because of a trait they can not get, regardless of what other traits (especially disads) apply. Flight is a popular one, but so can be Innate Attacks, Penetrating Vision, and Shapeshifting.
Not sure what's surprising about that. 'Be something cool that does cool stuff' is a pretty basic RPG motivator, I think.
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Old 05-23-2018, 08:06 PM   #28
Pragmatic
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Default Re: Equal race point totals

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
Not saying your approach is wrong, though it's not for me...but you seem to be missing the basic (and long-standing) selling point of non-human races providing exotic traits that you couldn't just pick anyway.

(Also, for some, the quality that as a template it can let you wind up with total Disadvantages in excess of the asserted Disadvantage limit.)
I may be misreading your post, but didn't I say (paraphrasing because I'm on my phone), "or have the template have some trait you can't buy elsewhere."

I also suggested having racial talents as power ups.
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Old 05-23-2018, 08:28 PM   #29
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Default Re: Equal race point totals

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Originally Posted by Pragmatic View Post
I may be misreading your post, but didn't I say (paraphrasing because I'm on my phone), "or have the template have some trait you can't buy elsewhere."

I also suggested having racial talents as power ups.
You sort of did, though nothing really pointing to exotic traits as far as I see. ("cinematic advantages or skills")

However, I was mainly focusing on your first paragraph, where you said "all a racial template is..." and then clearly excluded exotic traits. You only brought up "things that make them special" when you were proposing your alternative, despite such things being a standard feature of all but the most mundane fantasy race templates.
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Old 05-24-2018, 06:37 AM   #30
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Default Re: Equal race point totals

Quote:
Originally Posted by kirbwarrior View Post
I'm no longer surprised how much players will pick a race just because of a trait they can not get, regardless of what other traits (especially disads) apply. Flight is a popular one, but so can be Innate Attacks, Penetrating Vision, and Shapeshifting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericbsmith View Post
I'm not even surprised by the number of players who pick a particular race because "I always play elves" or "this is essentially a Space Elf, right?"
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth View Post
Not sure what's surprising about that. 'Be something cool that does cool stuff' is a pretty basic RPG motivator, I think.
There's a basic divide between people who think "be something cool" can include (or must be) things that are not human, and people who think humans (possibly stretched to include "demi-humans") are cool. It doesn't mean much, it's just a personality thing.

I've got a bad case of "nonhuman things are cool" with a bias towards big things with natural weapons[1], for other people it's one thing, be it elves, or dwarves, or of course humans.

But "Human with super-powers" is a special kind of really cool human :)


[1] Contrary to popular belief, I'm not fixated on Minotaurs specifically. Claws and hooves and fangs and ripping teeth and quills and pincers and stingers and antlers and musk sprays, it's all awesome.
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