Self Destruct Optional Rule?

[dwalend]

Originally Posted by TheAmishStig

Agreed. I do like the rules as they sit...specifically because they reward playing smart over the course of the entire game rather than dumb luck on a single make-or-break roll. If the game hinged on dumb luck to the point a typical game could be decided by it and it alone, Ogre wouldn't be half as fun as it is.

I agree.

But ogre does have some dumb luck situations. HWZ, MHWZ, and cruise missiles all have that feel for me. It's not to my taste - part of my overall approach is to roll attacks frequently to minimize luck's influence. However, some Ogre fans love that luck aspect.

A quarter of the defense force vs a MkI is all about coin tosses to take out the MkI's MB before it zaps your last GEV, but can make for a fun 10 minutes. I have more fun playing it four times than just playing once.

[GranitePenguin]

Originally Posted by woodchuck

It's an "all or nothing" sort of gamble, it's a popular thing with some gamers. And on the rare occasion when it works it can be quite amusing, I've been on the receiving end of this tactic.

for the same reason I love to take 1-2 attack rolls. Nothing irritates like a lone GEV taking out a MB :-)

[ianargent]

I suppose that's not even a corner case, where you need to take X treads off or lose the game next turn...

[GranitePenguin]

Originally Posted by Dave Crowell

Self Destruct rule clarification Infantry and CP at 5 hexes unaffected.

No clarification needed; that's why I wrote my list in the order I did (in increasing range/decreasing effect order).

Ogres in the same hex: destroyed
all other units within 4 hexes: destroyed
all armor units 5 hexes away: disabled

By not explicitly including them at 5 hexes, INF and CPs are implicitly excluded. :-)

[ColBosch]

One of the big problems I have with BattleTech - which I also love - is that there are too many mechanics that allow for instant kills of units. That lack of "critical hits" is one of the things I most like about Ogre. A couple of good dice rolls will destroy some defenders or a couple weapons on an Ogre, but rarely does it mean that you're packing up the game early.

[offsides]

Over the years it's been demonstrated repeatedly to me that not counting the effects of luck on the die roll, the basic Ogre scenario is pretty much perfectly balanced. As an example, a game I refereed at a con nearly 17 years ago that I still remember vividly ended like this:

CP is in the back right corner. Mk III with 1 tread, N AP guns (probably all of them, but I can't remember for certain) and no other weapons is 2 hexes away crawling down the edge. Defender has 1 GEV left (and no other units), in range to attack. Attacks the treads and rolls a 1, causing the Ogre player to rejoice and the defending player to sag. Suddenly he brightens up a little, and with his GEV 2nd move he rams the Ogre, destroying its last tread for the draw. The only units left on the board are the CP and an immobile Ogre with only AP guns, 1 hex out of range. If that's not a perfect draw, I don't know what is.

And while I've certainly seen plenty of runaway games, as long as the dice don't disproportionately favor one player or someone uses terrible tactics, it's usually close.

[ianargent]

Originally Posted by GranitePenguin

for the same reason I love to take 1-2 attack rolls. Nothing irritates like a lone GEV taking out a MB :-)

Didn't we have a discussion, one that included Henry Cobb, about 1-2 odds, and more generally, about LGEVs being strictly superior to GEVs because of their ability to "split" attack factors, including the massive number of 1-2 odds shots this can generate?

LTs weren't quite as good vs HVYs in GEV scenarios because of their worse movement class.

[GranitePenguin]

Originally Posted by offsides

Attacks the treads and rolls a 1, causing the Ogre player to rejoice and the defending player to sag. Suddenly he brightens up a little, and with his GEV 2nd move he rams the Ogre, destroying its last tread for the draw.

I'd have to look at the version of the rules that existed at that time, but current rules would not have allowed it to happen. You can't ram on the 2nd Movement phase if you fired that turn.

6.07.3 Ramming by GEVs. GEV units (GEVs, LGEVs, and GEV- PCs) may not ram on the second movement phase if they attacked on that turn.

All that really means is to get a sure hit on the treads in that scenario, you'd just ram and call it a day.

[GranitePenguin]

Originally Posted by ianargent

Didn't we have a discussion, one that included Henry Cobb, about 1-2 odds, and more generally, about LGEVs being strictly superior to GEVs because of their ability to "split" attack factors, including the massive number of 1-2 odds shots this can generate?

LTs weren't quite as good vs HVYs in GEV scenarios because of their worse movement class.

It's always a balancing act. LGEVs are not perfect; yes you get a "mini-SHVY" split attack capability, but they drop like flies, even from spillover fire.

[Dave Crowell]

The vulnerability of LGEVs in trade for their increase attack numbers is further evidence of how well balanced Ogre/GEV really is.

I think that is why I still enjoy the game so much. It remains a contest of player skill and there are a huge number of possible configurations to play in.