Balancing out the Missile Tank

[Tim Kauffman]

Originally Posted by selenite

My preferred fix is to give the MSL an opportunity fire opportunity so it always gets the first shot in on GEVs, SHVYs, etc.

+1 and a Thumbs up.

I really like this idea. Now I have another "new" Paneropean unit to run in a scenario I've been working on since the KS launched. This would really work well. Thanks! :)

I wonder what this ability would do to the units cost, if anything?
Maybe it adds no AU value and can be considered the official rule that never made it into the rules revision. ;) That's my take anyways.

[Macunaima]

I generally give units the ability to reaction fire if they have not moved or fired during their player turn.

I give the attacker 25% more units to balance this out.

[dwalend]

Originally Posted by Macunaima

I generally give units the ability to reaction fire if they have not moved or fired during their player turn.

When do they fire? During the other player's fire phase? After the other player's fire phase? Before that? Or after GEV movement?

HWZ and MHWZ, too? Ogre missiles? Lasers?

Could get complex fast.

[Macunaima]

Real simple:

A unit that doesn't move or fire in its turn gets a "reaction" marker placed next to it. It can fire in the enemy's turn, after his movement and before his fire.

Everything but lasers. Ogres need to not move or fire at all in order to get a reaction marker.

[selenite]

Originally Posted by Macunaima

A unit that doesn't move or fire in its turn gets a "reaction" marker placed next to it. It can fire in the enemy's turn, after his movement and before his fire.

I was going to post the write-up I did but yours is much more elegant. Nicely done.

[Talorien]

Originally Posted by Macunaima

Real simple:

A unit that doesn't move or fire in its turn gets a "reaction" marker placed next to it. It can fire in the enemy's turn, after his movement and before his fire.

Everything but lasers. Ogres need to not move or fire at all in order to get a reaction marker.

I've been toying with a very similar house rule: all units with such a marker can reaction fire by flipping themselves to disabled. These units recover at the beginning of their own turn.

This doesn't work with buildings or infantry (though I'd like to test squad reduction in place of disabling, crazy I know).

The in-game rationale is that firing exposes position, produces radar/heat signature, requires pop-up from cover (even firing indirect), etc.

The out-of-game rationale is that this might (or might not!) autobalance existing scenarios without needing to adjust force sizes.

[offsides]

Originally Posted by Talorien

I've been toying with a very similar house rule: all units with such a marker can reaction fire by flipping themselves to disabled. These units recover at the beginning of their own turn.

This doesn't work with buildings or infantry (though I'd like to test squad reduction in place of disabling, crazy I know).

The in-game rationale is that firing exposes position, produces radar/heat signature, requires pop-up from cover (even firing indirect), etc.

The out-of-game rationale is that this might (or might not!) autobalance existing scenarios without needing to adjust force sizes.

Reduction of INF just for reaction firing doesn't make much sense. I'd suggest eliminating terrain defense modifiers instead to go with the in-game rationale. Definitely needs testing though.

[dwalend]

Originally Posted by Macunaima

Real simple:

A unit that doesn't move or fire in its turn gets a "reaction" marker placed next to it. It can fire in the enemy's turn, after his movement and before his fire.

Everything but lasers. Ogres need to not move or fire at all in order to get a reaction marker.

Why an exception for lasers? (It won't make much difference anyway. Their range is so long.)

For ogres, that's a pretty harsh penalty to force ogres to sit still. What happens if you just put a reaction marker on any guns they don't fire? Letting them react all the time with those unused secondaries and AP may make up for their having to get into other units' reaction range to fight.

[Macunaima]

Originally Posted by dwalend

Why an exception for lasers? (It won't make much difference anyway. Their range is so long.)

For ogres, that's a pretty harsh penalty to force ogres to sit still. What happens if you just put a reaction marker on any guns they don't fire? Letting them react all the time with those unused secondaries and AP may make up for their having to get into other units' reaction range to fight.

The first rule for any changes here is KISS. So I don`t want to have to track individual ogre weapons.

Secondly, in game mechanics terms, my reaction fire rule is designed to let units with longer range occupy nice defensive terrain and let the battle come to them. Ogres moving forward and reserving fire doesn't fit in with that philosophy.

Lasers are designed to shoot down missiles. If they aren't doing that, they can fire in their turn. They are not designed to take snap shots. That's the rationale.

In games mechanics terms, it makes them too powerful, imho, given their infinite range.

[selenite]

Originally Posted by dwalend

For ogres, that's a pretty harsh penalty to force ogres to sit still.

Ogres don't need the help to make them worth choosing for your force. Letting them reserve some weapons for opportunity fire would make them even more powerful. Infantry in particular would become completely useless if APs always got the first shot.