12-10-2012, 07:17 AM | #11 | ||
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: [MA] Throw Wrestling, Belt/Jacket Wrestling Styles
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In my campaign, I want there to be a clear difference between wrestlers trained in different styles, but with the mechanics as they are, that's surprisingly difficult. There's just not enough scope for mechanical differrence between styles. I assume Technical Grappling will fix that, of course. Established wrestling styles in my campaign include a very freestyle, very violent, very pragmatic Combat Wrestling one; a religious/health/lifestyle one similar to Indian Wrestling; two national styles both with a basis in a pankration-like art; a belt-wrestling style from Babylonian-esque roots (but very possibly with Caananite elements), a jacket-wrestling one from a culture of mounted warriors and finally an Egyptian-esque art. Having some of them be Judo and Wrestling (the pankration-inspired) and some Wrestling is a difference, I guess, but not quite enough of one. All of them exist in the campaign setting in combat-useful varieties as well as Sport-based ones*, but given the availability of magical healing, even sportive contests tend to full-contact violence. As it happens, I think Sumo Wrestling is a great way to represent many jacket wrestling forms. *I treat Sport and Art forms of Combat skills as Techniques, anyway. I do agree that what is taught in many sportive or artistic forms has limited or no utility on a confused battlefield without rules or careful one-on-one matchups, but I don't agree that it's realistic or good game design to make it almost precisely as expensive in terms of points and training time for a professional level fighter (DX+2) to turn his sportive skills to battle application as it would be for an untrained person (10 points vs. 12 points). I'd always felt that it was most unfortunate that Sweep was not even a possibility with Wrestling skill, given how many armed styles include only Wrestling as its unarmed skill.
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12-10-2012, 07:26 AM | #12 |
GURPS FAQ Keeper
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyïv, Ukraine
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Re: [MA] Throw Wrestling, Belt/Jacket Wrestling Styles
Um, ones that can stun and/or damage as a result of it are Throws and the others are Takedowns?
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12-10-2012, 07:32 AM | #13 |
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Iceland*
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Re: [MA] Throw Wrestling, Belt/Jacket Wrestling Styles
In that case, no form of wrestling performed standing up would be without it. There is always a chance that a throw (note lowercase) will disorient and even hurt if you land wrong.
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12-10-2012, 07:32 AM | #14 | |
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: One Mile Up
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Re: [MA] Throw Wrestling, Belt/Jacket Wrestling Styles
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12-10-2012, 07:36 AM | #15 | ||||
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: [MA] Throw Wrestling, Belt/Jacket Wrestling Styles
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12-10-2012, 09:16 AM | #16 |
Join Date: Aug 2004
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Re: [MA] Throw Wrestling, Belt/Jacket Wrestling Styles
Well, something akin to specialties (one "core" hard skill and two specialized medium skills, with defaults set up like optional specialties). But that's a cogent point: Technical Grappling has the (IMO) unenviable task of developing the material while remaining compatible with the Basic Set, Martial Arts, and characters created with those rules/skills. A house-rule system in a Pyramid article has the, uh, luxury of incompatibility.
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02-04-2016, 07:18 AM | #17 |
Join Date: Feb 2016
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Re: [MA] Throw Wrestling, Belt/Jacket Wrestling Styles
Which is why a plenty of wrestling-stylized takedown moves (thinking of different kinds of tackle especially) assume you are able to brace yourself into three-point, crawling position whether successful or not. Not sayin you have to or that you do brace, just sayin that you assume such possibility when performing such move.
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02-04-2016, 07:39 AM | #18 | |
Join Date: Feb 2016
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Re: [MA] Throw Wrestling, Belt/Jacket Wrestling Styles
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Not much experience with traditional belt-wrestling styles, but from what I pick up in videos compared with my personal grappling knowledge (if limited knowledge and little experience), I would say a plenty of moves would be similar or identical to Sumo and then it makes a lot of sense to introduce some way of transfering this throwing knowledge (which actually is quite deep in Sumo as a majority of rrikishi use throws in bouts sometimes and are taught the proper how-to without need to cross train; and it should be mentioned as well that even Jigoro Kano himself studied Sumo or at least knew their techniques, Morihei Ueshiba as well reportedly) But then again, I got some issue with entire description of Sumo style in MA, to be addressed in solo thread when I complete playtesting of my house-written style for Sumo. |
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02-05-2016, 05:59 AM | #19 |
Join Date: Feb 2016
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Re: [MA] Throw Wrestling, Belt/Jacket Wrestling Styles
To add to previous - in several documentary shows/movies about sumo it is seen that rikishi are somewhat trained to use a breakfall (during so-called "impact drills")
Adding throws to a breakfall, the logic would seem to be quite clear, though contradictory to MA:TG - Power Grappling Perk suddenly makes a lot of sense. Which it doesnt too much, as Power Grappling always seemed a bit over-power. To respect MA:TG, which I quite like (except a few "house-tweaks" I made) I would suggest an alternative solution, not only for Sumo but for all the styles of Throw Wrestling whose practicioners not only know but are trained in complex throw techniques (and some falling and other Judo-specific stuff alltogether) and that would be to add Judo among basic skills for a Style and allow a specific Perk in line with Skill Adaptation, Special Exercises or Special Setup; specification would be "Judo Throw defaults from ST-based skill roll instead of DX-based one". The logic is, that those guys usually train some basics in overall skill, but mostly practice throws because these are essential for them, and seeing that their "usual craft" is ST-based grappling that would make a lot of sense, for the result is that you suddenly have a freaking strong huge dude with some basic understanding of Judo (DX-2, so 9-11 at best), who trains throws a lot because they are important for his style but tweaks them "his muscle way" (eg. DX-2 in Judo but ST-2 in Judo Throw, which is better for that "model dude" because while he may or may not be agile/nimble, he sure is strong as hell so while his Judo is all-in-all average at best, his Throws are good if somewhat crude because muscle replaces craft somewhat, eg. 12-16 possibly in ST-based Throws if ST 14-18 is to be accepted as a model). Opinions? :-) Last edited by Maorencze; 02-05-2016 at 06:04 AM. |
02-05-2016, 06:08 AM | #20 | |
Join Date: Feb 2016
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Re: [MA] Throw Wrestling, Belt/Jacket Wrestling Styles
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grappling, martial arts, wrestling |
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