07-18-2009, 01:18 PM | #351 |
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Re: IW What Ifs...?
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07-18-2009, 01:45 PM | #352 |
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: West Virginia
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Re: IW What Ifs...?
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07-18-2009, 01:49 PM | #353 |
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Germany
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Re: IW What Ifs...?
"Stopping them in front of Vienna" is a strong and good metaphor, yes. (I have nothing against western Istanbul in the EU. But it's way to early for an Eurasian Union of any kind. Plus, they aren't ready for the EU yet. And I doubt they're willing to get ready.)
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07-18-2009, 01:55 PM | #354 |
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: West Virginia
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Re: IW What Ifs...?
Here's a religiously based idea to try. What if Tom Paine's form of Deism had become the dominate faith/philosophical outlook in 19th Century America?
Anti-Americanism in the Romantic period was profound, the fact that America was trying to be a Democracy (something many Europeans still deny we're capable of) looked like we were trying to restart the French Revolutionary/Napoleonic wars. If Deism had become dominant in America, a profound religious revival in Europe would have been a likely reaction. A Post-Christian America might look across the Atantic to see a ultra-Orthodox Chirstian Europe. We might even be allied with a tolerant Sufi Islam to prevent European Christian Neo-Crusaders from dangerous foreign adventurism ;-) A quick refreasher on Paine's creed... I believe in one God, and no more; and I hope for happiness beyond this life. I believe in the equality of man; and I believe that religious duties consist in doing justice, loving mercy, and endeavouring to make our fellow-creatures happy. But, lest it should be supposed that I believe many other things in addition to these, I shall, in the progress of this work, declare the things I do not believe, and my reasons for not believing them. I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church. All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit. I do not mean by this declaration to condemn those who believe otherwise; they have the same right to their belief as I have to mine. But it is necessary to the happiness of man that he be mentally faithful to himself. Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe With ideas like this, we might have abolished Slavery sooner with the Southerners co-operating or leading the way. |
07-18-2009, 03:01 PM | #355 | ||
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Re: IW What Ifs...?
Quote:
Still, the actual point was that considering the time and space involved, there should be more Muslim than Communist parallels. The Williams-Khor Hypothesis strikes again, I suppose. Quote:
(I guess you could start with why it would make everybody in Europe convert to Orthodox Christianity, although I assume that by ultra-Orthodox you do not mean Old Believers.) I only have a quick google & skim knowledge of it, but it sounds as if the XYZ affair was not a historical inevitability and could have been butterflied by earlier divergences. Which is also what is needed to make the US and France the kind of allies asked for. (But, yeah, the Alternate History Discussion Board probably have more people ready, able and willing to spot and fix the important flaws. Or at least sound more convincing about it.) |
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07-18-2009, 07:19 PM | #356 | |
Untitled
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: between keyboard and chair
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Re: IW What Ifs...?
Quote:
I thought you were taking part in this thread to debate AH (which is why I asked for your opinion on my modest proposal). It appears I was wrong. Everyone else, I apologize for wasting bandwidth when I asked for that critique. I'll drop the request now.
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Rob Kelk “Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts.” – Bernard Baruch, Deming (New Mexico) Headlight, 6 January 1950 No longer reading these forums regularly. |
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07-18-2009, 09:10 PM | #357 |
Stick in the Mud
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Rural Utah
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Re: IW What Ifs...?
Thread closed for personal attacks.
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