Spells without the Spell system

[Anders]

Originally Posted by Guilt

Does anyone have some fun ideas for utility "Spells" to round out my current pool beyond my unimaginative Light Spell (accessory torch), Mage hand (TK 2), Fog (Obscure, sight, ranged 3) and various flavours of damage (the easiest to play with)?

Just a note, if you have Powers I would recommend you buy your spells as Alternate Abilities (p. P11).

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by Anders

Just a note, if you have Powers I would recommend you buy your spells as Alternate Abilities (p. P11).

Likely an "N of M" build, what Sorcery calls "Simultaneous Spells", as it's likely you'll want more than one spell active at a time. ("A good sorcerer should have one attack, one defense, and one escape spell hanging around at all times." -- Merlin, Blood of Amber.)

Sorcery also throws a Modular Ability pool into the AA group. Even as the most expensive ability in the group, the pool overhead means this is useful mostly for little spells. But it's also the way that system gets some improvisational flexibility.

If you're going to get into building magic as powers, both Sorcery and Psi Powers are worth studying as worked examples, showing how things can be done -- especially since they both have the full stats and "Under the Hood" sections explaining how the systems are built. They're not just some other monolithic, opaque alternative magic system, but visibly built with the same tools you'll be using.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Powers as Magic isn't that bad, you are just not going to get a lot of spells.

Which is the problem. Look at your average DC mage and realize just how many spells they cast. As I said before a 400 point GURPS Magic mage could tear a 400 point Magic Power wizard a new one.

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

If you want prerequisite chains for magic (you need X power before Y power), you may want a skill tree.

Rune magic (which I mentioned as an alternative) doesn't use prerequisite chains.

Besides there is Ritual Magic which in its Ritual Path Magic form is totally ridiculous in terms of both flexibility and power and no prerequisite chains there either.

Heck, RPM is likely the easiest way to model someone like Zartana or Dr. Strange.

[AlexanderHowl]

Additional spells can be modeled through the rules for improvising modifiers and for using abilities at default.

[Raekai]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

I think Raekai also had a list, either homebrew or conversion of D&D spells. But I couldn't find a link easily, so I may be misremembering.

I don't, but now I wish I did. I just started converting Magic to RPM. Though, for magic as powers, I'll definitely throw in another vote for Enraged Eggplant's stuff.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by maximara

Which is the problem. Look at your average DC mage and realize just how many spells they cast. As I said before a 400 point GURPS Magic mage could tear a 400 point Magic Power wizard a new one.

Why are DC mages's particularly relevant? different depictions of wizards have different numbers are varieties of spells.

while the 400 point gurps mage has a wide range of abilities and is extremely versatile, he generally has to husband his power a lot more cautiously than a 400 point pyromancer/illusionist. Powers lets you use your abilities every turn, and that's a huge advantage, even if the scope of what you can do is smaller.

Allowing alternate abilities is hugely important. If they're not allowed powers can rapidly fall behind other magic systems. In fact, several gurps "magic systems" are just worked examples of alternate ability systems.

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Additional spells can be modeled through the rules for improvising modifiers and for using abilities at default.

This is really key to making the system work. Its especially appropriate when tweaking existing abilities.

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I find that magic as powers works best when you pick a specialty or two. Rather than going for a "Greatest Hits" List, pick a few aspects of magic and think about all the things you could do with it. Think about how to damage, how to incapacitate, how to obscure or deceive, and how to use it for movement.

Specialties I encourage you to look at include Illusion (a lot of classic wizard story stuff is illusion based), Mind effects, and Pyromancy. Detection magic can also be really fun and useful.

One thing powers does a lot better than other magic systems is raw damage. It can be painfully slow/expensive to build and throw a fireball in RPM or the standard magic system, but powers lets you build a wizard who can burn down armies.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by ericthered

Allowing alternate abilities is hugely important. If they're not allowed powers can rapidly fall behind other magic systems. In fact, several gurps "magic systems" are just worked examples of alternate ability systems.


This is really key to making the system work. Its especially appropriate when tweaking existing abilities.

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One thing powers does a lot better than other magic systems is raw damage. It can be painfully slow/expensive to build and throw a fireball in RPM or the standard magic system, but powers lets you build a wizard who can burn down armies.

Yep. Divine Favor (Patron), Sorcery (Modular Abilities), Totem and Nature Spirits (Alternate Form). Easy enough to pick any other power as the starting point.
Dont overlook the other approach though which is Power Stunts with Techniques such as Psionic Powers.
That is even more versatile, though more FP heavy and gets a nod in Sorcery.

[AlexanderHowl]

Yes, you can create an ability that can burn down cities for 50 CP. For example, Rain of Fire-Burning Attack 1d (Accurate, +10, +50%; Area Effect, 1024 yards, +500%; Extended Duration, 300x, +100%; Homing, +50%; Incendiary, +10%; Increased Range, 1000x, +90%; Overhead, +30%; Persistant, +40%; Selective Area, +20%; Selectivity, +10%) [50]. An area equal to a square mile burns for nearly an hour, and it is hot enough to catch nearly everything on fire.

[lvalero]

Does anyone have some fun ideas for utility "Spells" to round out my current pool beyond my unimaginative Light Spell (accessory torch), Mage hand (TK 2), Fog (Obscure, sight, ranged 3) and various flavours of damage (the easiest to play with)?

Wizards Eye. The ability to send a floting eye through the dungeon.
Clairsentience/Clairaudience. The ability to see/hear to others senses.
Curse/Remove curse
Anti Magic Shell
Detect magic. Detect traps. Detect evil.
Leomund tiny hut
Alarm.
Send message.
Trigger spell.

[awesomenessofme1]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Yes, you can create an ability that can burn down cities for 50 CP. For example, Rain of Fire-Burning Attack 1d (Accurate, +10, +50%; Area Effect, 1024 yards, +500%; Extended Duration, 300x, +100%; Homing, +50%; Incendiary, +10%; Increased Range, 1000x, +90%; Overhead, +30%; Persistant, +40%; Selective Area, +20%; Selectivity, +10%) [50]. An area equal to a square mile burns for nearly an hour, and it is hot enough to catch nearly everything on fire.

I would add Increased 1/2D x10, +15%. It's a bit strange for an attack like that to have to worry about 1/2D range. That only adds +1 to the cost.