Affliction: Energy Reserve

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Anders

I would allow it if it cost 10 FP.

if afflicted ER began empty like when you create a powerstone then it wouldn't seem too imbalanced to allow it without an FP cost

[Anders]

Maybe. I don't like it, but I couldn't tell you why.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by Plane

if afflicted ER began empty like when you create a powerstone then it wouldn't seem too imbalanced to allow it without an FP cost

Yeah, that seems like the natural solution.



I looked to see if healing worked on FP, I don't see a modifier that will do that, and regeneration for ER only in useful timescale is far too expensive for what we want to do.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Taneli

Energy Reserve (Magic) 10 (Special Recharge (none)

Looking at P119 since it doesn't actually give names to the variations of Special Recharge, I'm thinking we could rename the -80% version "Bleeding Special Recharge" and I guess -70% version "Unbleeding Special Recharge".

That or maybe not have a -80% version and just make "pool loses 1 per second" a -10% standalone limitation.

Allowing that on the Slow-Recharge or Fast-Recharge things is probably fine.

1 per second is like regeneration: very fast (ER only -0%) [100] and shutting down something like that would be worth -100% as a Temporary Disadvantage, so -10% is probably kinda underpriced, especially since it's not just effectively cancelling out that level of regeneration, but also making you lose points gained via other means like leech / absorption DR

Originally Posted by zoncxs

an give your target an ER pool
..
Affliction 1 (HT; Advantage

Might want to splurge for Malediction 1 so consenting allies can opt to forgo resisting it.

Can make that cheaper by taking "Easy to Resist" or "Increased Immunity" limitations if forcing ERs on non-consenting targets is not of any importance to you.

Originally Posted by zoncxs

pool lasts for 30 seconds or until they use the ER, which ever comes first.
..
Fixed Duration, +0%; Reduced Duration 1/3, -10%;

Fixed Duration changes MoS minutes to 3 minutes.

1/3 of that would be 60 seconds, not 30.

I think if you want 30 sec it'd be 1/6 duration for -15%

- - -

As for "until they use the ER", I don't know if you're allowed to do that?

Technically I think they should be forced to keep the advantage (an empty ER which might be rechargeable via special means) until the duration is up.

PU8p18 "Terminal Condition" might possibly give what you're describing though? You could take this limitation on Affliction.

"enemies can end your ability’s ongoing effects with a simple act" is normally how that works...

Enemies can't usually empty someone's ER easily though. I had a thread before highlighting how neither Fatigue Attack and Leech FP could technically target and ER, for example, but even if they could, enemies with such exotic abilities are probably kinda rare.

So this would probably fall under the "if the condition is difficult to arrange even if known" set of pricing.

"special effect" (-0%) for "arcane enough to require research" is probably an easy way to opt that in. Presumably the user of Affliction knows about the Terminal Condition and could instruct his allies that by depleting ER they can terminate the ER, which is important to know for example if you want the ally to stop being detectable as magic/enchanted.

Enemies OTOH you could avoid telling so they have no way of prematurely ending it and not registering as magic.

Originally Posted by zoncxs

After level 9 there is a cost anomaly.
Energy Share 8 = Energy Share 10
because ER 9 cost the same as ER 10.

Cost per level, separated:
Energy Share 1 = 7
Energy Share 2 = 7.5
Energy Share 3 = 8
Energy Share 4 = 8.5
Energy Share 5 = 9
Energy Share 6 = 9.5
Energy Share 7 = 10
Energy Share 8 = 10.5
Energy Share 9 = 11
Energy Share 10 = 10.5
Energy Share 11 = 11

I'm actually not sure how you got ES9 costing more than ES8, can you show a breakdown explaining that?

I think the math might go a lot smoother if we just avoided rounding the CP cost of ER. It always feels wrong to round at multiple levels.

30% of 3 is 0.9 so maybe we just price the Affliciton: Advantage enhancement at 9%/level?

[Pragmatic]

This reminds me of Destiny of the Darksword. There's one magic user that provides mana to other magic users.

[zoncxs]

Originally Posted by Plane

Might want to splurge for Malediction 1 so consenting allies can opt to forgo resisting it.

Can make that cheaper by taking "Easy to Resist" or "Increased Immunity" limitations if forcing ERs on non-consenting targets is not of any importance to you.

I did not put Malediction because you can not use range modifiers with it. All you can do is change the "range" for it, going from "-1 per yard" to "Speed and Range table" to "Long Distance table". That was not a desired function.

Originally Posted by Plane

Fixed Duration changes MoS minutes to 3 minutes.

1/3 of that would be 60 seconds, not 30.

I think if you want 30 sec it'd be 1/6 duration for -15%

You right, I forgot to change the wording, it is 1min. I went with that to keep it a little smooth with the cost.

Originally Posted by Plane

As for "until they use the ER", I don't know if you're allowed to do that?

Technically I think they should be forced to keep the advantage (an empty ER which might be rechargeable via special means) until the duration is up.

I went with the Until they use it cause once it is used, they should not be able to refill it. Think of the abuse? The point is that the ability is supposed to let the target tap into your energy source, not give them a battery they can recharge. If you want them to have a refillable battery then it can be made that way, but from what I read from the OP it is not supposed to be that.

Originally Posted by Plane

...
I'm actually not sure how you got ES9 costing more than ES8, can you show a breakdown explaining that?

Energy Share 8 = Affliction (HT; Advantage, Energy Reserve 8, +80%; Fixed Duration, +0%; Reduced Duration 1/3, -10%; Increased 1/2D, 10x, +15%; Reduced Range 1/10, -30%; PM, ‑10%; Cost ER 8, -40%) [10.5]

Energy Share 9 = Affliction (HT; Advantage, Energy Reserve 9, +90%; Fixed Duration, +0%; Reduced Duration 1/3, -10%; Increased 1/2D, 10x, +15%; Reduced Range 1/10, -30%; PM, ‑10%; Cost ER 9, -45%) [11]

The cost of each "level" as an A.A. is 2cp, so having this ability at level 8 means having ES 1-7 each as an A.A. costing 14cp plus ES 8 costing 10.5 round up to 11. 14+11 = 25cp

ES 9 is the same, ES 1-8 as A.A., costing 17* plus ES 9 which is 11cp. 17 + 11 = 28cp

* I realized I messed up the cost a little. I will edit original post to reflect it.

ES 10 is weird, on its own, cause the ER cost is the same as in ES 9 but the FP cost still goes up (From 9 to 10 costing -50%).

Originally Posted by Plane

I think the math might go a lot smoother if we just avoided rounding the CP cost of ER. It always feels wrong to round at multiple levels.

It may feel weird, but then you will not have the right numbers and it will make things even worse.

Originally Posted by Plane

30% of 3 is 0.9 so maybe we just price the Affliciton: Advantage enhancement at 9%/level?

This would make the cost wonky, not to mention you still have to round the cost up.


Cost per level, separated using the above:
Energy Share 1 = 6.9 = 7
Energy Share 2 = 7.3 = 8
Energy Share 3 = 7.7 = 8
Energy Share 4 = 8.1 = 9
Energy Share 5 = 8.5 = 9
Energy Share 6 = 8.9 = 9
Energy Share 7 = 9.3 = 10
Energy Share 8 = 9.7 = 10
Energy Share 9 = 10.1 = 11
Energy Share 10 = 10.5 = 11
Energy Share 11 = 10.9 = 11

Actual cost for each "level":

7/10/12/15/17/19/22/24/27/30/33

[Plane]

Originally Posted by zoncxs

Energy Share 8 = Affliction (HT; Advantage, Energy Reserve 8, +80%; Fixed Duration, +0%; Reduced Duration 1/3, -10%; Increased 1/2D, 10x, +15%; Reduced Range 1/10, -30%; PM, ‑10%; Cost ER 8, -40%) [10.5]

Energy Share 9 = Affliction (HT; Advantage, Energy Reserve 9, +90%; Fixed Duration, +0%; Reduced Duration 1/3, -10%; Increased 1/2D, 10x, +15%; Reduced Range 1/10, -30%; PM, ‑10%; Cost ER 9, -45%) [11]

Small note: I think you can add an extra -5% as that's added to Costs FP if only ER and not FP can fuel it.

Originally Posted by zoncxs

Cost per level, separated using the above:
Energy Share 1 = 6.9 = 7
Energy Share 2 = 7.3 = 8
Energy Share 3 = 7.7 = 8
Energy Share 4 = 8.1 = 9
Energy Share 5 = 8.5 = 9
Energy Share 6 = 8.9 = 9
Energy Share 7 = 9.3 = 10
Energy Share 8 = 9.7 = 10
Energy Share 9 = 10.1 = 11
Energy Share 10 = 10.5 = 11
Energy Share 11 = 10.9 = 11

Actual cost for each "level":

7/10/12/15/17/19/22/24/27/30/33

It'd be interesting if we could somehow have variable levels of an enhancement built in some single modifier collective instead of alternate attacks.

What if we combined "Partially Limited Abilities" w/ "Limited Enhancements" to make "Partially Limited Enhancements" ?

Basically we somehow work the "Laser Lad logic" on leveled enhancements instead of abilities. I'll need to come back to this once my brain's awake enough for that math.

Originally Posted by zoncxs

I did not put Malediction because you can not use range modifiers with it. All you can do is change the "range" for it, going from "-1 per yard" to "Speed and Range table" to "Long Distance table". That was not a desired function.

Hm, what about Malediction 2 +150% Weaponized -80% ? That's a net +70% and keeps it with a Max like normal ranged but still has a resistance roll so maybe that keeps it Maledictionish in the sense of being able to throw it? Though it's no longer a QC (is one sided) so not sure. I actually can't recall any examples of Weaponized used to build abilities to see if there's any "don't resist, throw the roll" precedents.

Originally Posted by zoncxs

I went with the Until they use it cause once it is used, they should not be able to refill it. Think of the abuse?

It would be pretty hard to abuse I think, you'd have to give them Leech or Absorption DR or something like that to refill that ER.

Although... you might need that anyway if the ER starts out empty. I'm kinda curious about that.

If afflicted ER doesn't begin empty then how exactly do we model Powerstones as Sorcery? Is that some kind of limitation to afflictions of depleteable pools if all points/shots begin at 0% instead of 100%?

It'd be easier with a "begin empty" model because for stuff which does begin full like a Manastone you could just have some kind of "one-use-ever Charge Powerstone" built into the creation.

Originally Posted by zoncxs

The point is that the ability is supposed to let the target tap into your energy source, not give them a battery they can recharge. If you want them to have a refillable battery then it can be made that way, but from what I read from the OP it is not supposed to be that.

refilling it doesn't seem particularly easy though =/

[Taneli]

Would it actually break anything to apply the variable FP cost logic from Powers 101 to this, but instead of tying it to the level of Affliction, tie it to the level of ER afflicted upon the target?

Like, if you have up to 5 levels of ER, then you’d get (5+1)/2 = 3 levels of costs Fatigue (or Costs ER) and state that it costs 1 FP (or ER) per point of ER that you try to afflict upon your target.

Presumably you would also need to take Variable at +5% as Affliction is an attack.

Of course, it’s a house rule to have the Variable affect an enchantment (The "payload" of Affliction, at least) of advantage, instead of the level of advantage, but on the face of it, I’d be willing to allow it as a GM, can anyone spot problems with it when used in this type of way?

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Taneli

Would it actually break anything to apply the variable FP cost logic from Powers 101 to this, but instead of tying it to the level of Affliction, tie it to the level of ER afflicted upon the target?

Like, if you have up to 5 levels of ER, then you’d get (5+1)/2 = 3 levels of costs Fatigue (or Costs ER) and state that it costs 1 FP (or ER) per point of ER that you try to afflict upon your target.

I've long thought this should be doable, applying "Costs Fatigue, Variable" to a leveled enhancement instead of a leveled advantage, constructing "Partially Limited Enhancements"

This would be a very cool concept for a LOT of tiered enhancements, like being able to pump in FP (or even other leveled limitations like Inaccurate, Extra Time) for extra effect.

I think the key to being able to use the P101 rules for it would be:

1) levels of enhancement need to cost the same amount (Malediction would be a problem, the first level costs twice as much as the increments to M2 and M3)
2) levels of limitation need to cost the same amount (Armor Divisor would be a problem, it jumps from -30% to -50%)

To be able to use this approach with a larger group of modifiers might require some math fudging to figure out what their effects would be at equidistant intervals.

Originally Posted by Taneli

Presumably you would also need to take Variable at +5% as Affliction is an attack.

Affliction has it's own levels (affecting penalty to resist, or difficulty to Power Parry) which is what Variable is for.

Flipping enhancements off falls under Selectivity.

You raise an interesting question though, if Selectivity can just partially flip off a leveled enhancement.

Like for example If you have (B102) a level 2 area effect enhancement (+100% for 4 yards) we know Selectivity can flip it off entirely (no AE at all) but could it just reduce it to a level 1 area effect (+50% for 2 yards) instead?

If yes (I'm thinking yes, but just don't know a text/forum example of this being mentioned) then it would seem okay to also allow this for Selectivity to allow partial application of leveled enhancements too:

1) like for example if you have "Attribute Penalty, -2 to IQ, +20%", allowing just a -1 to IQ to be chosen
2) or if you have "DR +2 +100%" allowing just +1 DR to be chosen

Of course, it’s a house rule to have the Variable affect an enchantment (The "payload" of Affliction, at least) of advantage, instead of the level of advantage, but on the face of it, I’d be willing to allow it as a GM, can anyone spot problems with it when used in this type of way?[/QUOTE]

[Taneli]

Selectivity at +10% allows you to change off or on all of the various enhancements of the ability.

I'd propose "Variable Affliction Payload" as a +5% enhancement that lets you vary the level of enhancement in the Afflictions payload ability, similar to how Variable enhancement allows you to vary the level of an attack ability.

This would clean up a lot of builds that are currently done as Alternate Abilities, like some in this thread.