06-03-2012, 10:11 PM | #11 | |
In Nomine Line Editor
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Frozen Wastelands of NH
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Re: Theurgy & Thaumaturgy (new Sorcery rules)
Filk that evokes a gray (possibly to light gray) sorcerer:
http://www.prometheus-music.com/eli/filk/mounttam.html In particular... Quote:
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06-04-2012, 12:39 AM | #12 |
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Madison, WI
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Re: Theurgy & Thaumaturgy (new Sorcery rules)
That's exactly why I changed the rules for Theurgists/pagan Sorcerers and Interventions. To give Hell that much power over them (especially with friendly angels or Ethereals running interference) makes little sense: in the right mortal hands, "magic" can be wielded to thwart the aims of Hell, so demons shouldn't want to improve the results of an outsider's ritual.
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Ingeborg S. Nordén |
06-04-2012, 05:58 AM | #13 |
Join Date: May 2012
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Re: Theurgy & Thaumaturgy (new Sorcery rules)
That's why I make Theurgy a different but related animal to Sorcery being it's divine counterpart.
Sorcery being a Willful pursuit has become a Fallen undertaking (likely dragged in to Hell by the demonic), but Symphonic Attunment is a way to claw your way back. my next major post will be a bunch of rituals for Focus. |
06-04-2012, 08:57 AM | #14 | |
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Re: Theurgy & Thaumaturgy (new Sorcery rules)
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Ultimately, "whatever floats your boat" needs to be said depressingly often in this sort of argument, but I feel you are reducing the number and quality of games that can be run in your setting if you turn every case of Sorcery into an actual alignment flag rather than a mere strong correlation. The rules deliberately don't deny the idea of "I know God's will, I have the power, I must implement it!" being a sorcerer's mindset (though admittedly that sounds more like a Habbalite, unless they've actually tried angel summoning to get orders...) Still following the thread for mechanics though, I might want to pillage them for actual sorcerers. |
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06-04-2012, 09:08 AM | #15 |
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Boston, MA
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Re: Theurgy & Thaumaturgy (new Sorcery rules)
Along similar lines, I have been considering approaching sorcery less as another way of manipulating reality directly (which is what we have Songs for) and more as theurgy/goetia -- that is, invoking otherworldly forces to exert your will, rather than exerting some inner power. You don't get to learn any attunements or songs permanently yourself, but you may get to perform them as a conduit of some other being's power. Get on Heaven's good side, and you might get Archangels willing to let their names be invoked every now and then so you can use a limited version of their attunements or secret Songs. Sell your soul to Hell, and you get some Princes willing to give occasional access to their attunements and songs. And, of course, the beings MOST likely to be excited about this deal are the pagan deities, as they don't need to permanently gift an attunement, and can yank support away*at their whim, but they get a cheap way to let worshipers witness their power.
Like sorcery rules as written, though, it still requires a great deal of Will (or Perception, for theurgists..?), but I might waive the Sorcery attunement requirement in exchange for some recognition of increased risk: Anytime you invoke otherworldly powers, there's a chance you might catch some superior being on a bad day, and suffer negative effects in addition to what you asked for. (Ever read that Hellboy comic in which a magician asks for a favor from a demon, not realizing he's lost his protective symbol? Shortly after being safely sealed behind a wall, he's turned into an animal... As another demon had warned him, "His favors come at too high a price.") |
06-04-2012, 11:12 PM | #16 |
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: South of the Town across from the City by the Bay
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Re: Theurgy & Thaumaturgy (new Sorcery rules)
I have little to add except let us think about how we interpret Symphonic Attunement.
Instead of conceiving it as being a karmic eraser, or writing your sorcerer deeds upon a palimpsest instead of a ledger, perhaps the GM can think of how these 5 pts have continuing in-game relevance. How about?: Being attuned to the screeching, gut-wrenching, noisome damage one does to the symphony through a grotesque force of will, one would be prone to be far more mindful about their uses of sorcery. If you want to go further, Symphonic Attunement gives you a spiritual GPS to choose your sorcery wisely, but you're still free to damn yourself -- basically making the initial 5 pts a "Symphony reader", with a clean slate thing that only kicks in upon death if you were actually mindful of the Symphony. In this way it's more than just palming off 5 CPs to wave away PC responsibility; it's an in-game tether that requires conscientious maintenance (and generates plot hooks! who doesn't like plot hooks! :D). Does that sound more fun? |
06-05-2012, 02:05 AM | #17 | |
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Madison, WI
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Re: Theurgy & Thaumaturgy (new Sorcery rules)
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Cool deal! Your comments make me wonder, though: in an Ethereal-friendly game, should pagan magic become a third kind of power-wielding (distinct from both Sorcery and Theurgy)? In canon, I can see arguments for AND against this...
Even if you don't want a three-sided War like mine, fantasy fiction has some good examples of magically talented people who are determined to stay neutral; I could easily see a "Light Gray" type based on Saul, a character from Christopher Stasheff's A Wizard in Rhyme series.
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Ingeborg S. Nordén |
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06-05-2012, 01:00 PM | #18 | |
Petitioner: Word of IN Filk
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Longmont, CO
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Re: Theurgy & Thaumaturgy (new Sorcery rules)
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06-06-2012, 04:38 AM | #19 | ||||
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Life imitates art--I'm in Pohang
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Re: Theurgy & Thaumaturgy (new Sorcery rules)
Sorry to take so long answering all these threads, but work has kept me busy and I don't yet have internet at home. In fact, I'm supposed to be doing that right now, but here I am. One Essence each for Fleurity and Vapula.
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I also feel/play that a sorcerer who is not Hellsworn is still going to be very high maintenance for those friendly angels or Ethereals. The philosophy behind it is so selfish...so I can see wanting to build a Divine counterpart. Outside of priestly exorcists, though, I don't see how it would work. Kudos to your superior imagination then. In a darker, lower contrast game the angels might decide that keeping a sorcerer on the straight-and-narrow isn't cost effective, and whack him as a precaution. Quote:
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See how easy that was? The initiate is not an innocent--he knows not to say those words, but he folds under very considerable pressure. The blame falls squarely on his shoulders for trusting those idiots and putting himself in that position. YMMV Quote:
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06-06-2012, 07:32 AM | #20 |
Join Date: May 2012
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Re: Theurgy & Thaumaturgy (new Sorcery rules)
Ok! Ritual time
Temporary Ward (Terrenus Tutela) (Focus/2) This ritual functions like the Ward Ritual but can be done much quicker (one round) but also has a much diminished duration (Focus X CD Rounds): Time: 1 Round Essence: The Check Digit Spirit Ward (Spiritus Tutela) (Focus/3) Where Tutela (Ward) bars the "Form" of a Celestial or Ethereal Being, Spirit Ward protects against preternatural forces (alterations to the Symphony) like those caused by Songs, Sorcery, Resonance or Attunements, though not always a totally secure protection it dose abate all effects it dose not prevent completely, reduce the Check Digit of the effect by that of the Spirit Ward those effects without Check Digits are completely prevented. Spirit Wards protect a area (10ft) as normal Wards. Angles may circumvent this Spirit Ward as they would Tutela where Demons, Ethereals and Sorcerers may brake down the barrier with brute force as they would a Ward Time: 15 minutes Essence: The Check Digit Temporary Spirit Ward (Terrenus Spirtus Tutela) (Focus/4) Like Temporary Ward this ritual is a much shorter duration version of the Spirit Ward Ritual, it functions as dose Spirit Ward but only for Focus by Check Digit rounds. Time: 1 Round Essence: The Check Digit More to come. |
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