Magic Staff - Can it have a metal endcap?

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Well, as written wooden weapons turn to ash whether or not they're fireproof.

If you want to be literal-minded about it, sure. See another thread for why I disagree with literal-minded readings. The intent is unambiguous: Wood burns, normally. Special fireproof wood equally obviously wouldn't burn.

[InexplicableVic]

Originally Posted by Imbicatus

Wood isn’t the only option. Bone, such as the bones of a fire aspected creature like a dragon would be good for flaming weapon. You cloud also have a group sea dwellers (or high TL biotech) cultivate coral weapons of any design that can accept the staff enchantment.

I think it's safe to assume that non-metal weapons would be destroyed by the Flaming Weapon spell unless, as Kromm posts in a subsequent thread, it was really expensive (and rare) dragon bone. Maybe if you got it from a dragon during adventuring, sure...

Otherwise nobody would take a wooden staff when an ordinary bone or coral staff would do, and could benefit from Flaming Weapon while the wooden staff could not. But yeah, I'd allow adventurers who killed a dragon to make a flame-retardant magic staff out of that, due to the special properties associated with coming from a flame-breathing dragon. Starting delvers? No.

[Mister Negative]

I say, go around and come in the other side.

It has to be rod-shaped and once-living material, right? So consult your local wizards and monster-hunters and find out if there are any monsters in your area made of living metal, then kill one of them.

Go after a Colchis Bull, maybe. If Jason could handle one, surely you guys can.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Spartan506

Otherwise nobody would take a wooden staff when an ordinary bone or coral staff would do, and could benefit from Flaming Weapon while the wooden staff could not.

The reason we make stuff out of wood and not coral or bone is that it is much stronger. An actual coral staff would crumble if you actually used it to hit something. Bone is a little better, but dry bones are still considerably less tough than most woods.

It's perhaps not so relevant to fantasy wizards, who have ways of making materials do unnatural stuff, but then if magic can make coral perform as well as wood, there's no particular reason it can't make wood perform as well as steel, and then what's the advantage of a metal endcap?

Edit: For that matter, if any organic stuff works about as well as a consequence of the Staff enchantment, it could be it does work on metal too, and does exactly the same thing - that is it makes the metal perform exactly the same as wood.

Originally Posted by malloyd

Edit: For that matter, if any organic stuff works about as well as a consequence of the Staff enchantment, it could be it does work on metal too, and does exactly the same thing - that is it makes the metal perform exactly the same as wood.

The more I think about it, the more I'm likely to turn the Staff enchantment into a Cost Factor thing. Call it +2 CF and stop worrying about what dangly bits it has, it's material, or shape.

If I decide material has a factor in it, call Inorganic materials +5 CF.

[Polkageist]

Well, it's certainly not because the wood limits the wizard's spells, it's explicitly stated that a wizard's staff doesn't burn up due to the various fire spells unlike a mundane wooden weapon.

I like to think that a wizard's staff is ~*special*~ and the process of making it into a wizard's staff regardless of material makes it ~*special*~ and gives it the wizard's staff stats even if it's made of iron, or wood, or bone, or moonbeams.

Any excuse to use the unusual material table in the DF treasure book :D

[Black Leviathan]

I feel like the "Once-living" qualifier is much more than flavor text. I think it's specifically to prevent you from turning swords into mage staffs or using other weapons that the heavier enchantments use. BUT IT'S SO COOL SOUNDING! Mages staff that crackles with electricity! Freaking baddass!

So here's my compromise. There is a middle ground of things that are "once living" and "Metal" somewhere in the loop-hole logic of alchemy and Thaumatology. Maybe Ironwood and hemetite will allow a mage's staff to be conductive like metal, or using shape-wood to embed the spine of an electric eel into the staff will make it proxy "metal" well enough. The exception to the rule is pricey, CF x14-x29, but it also means not everyone walks around with magical zap staffs.

[Polkageist]

It definitely helps give clarity as to what the designers were aiming for in terms of what a magical staff is. I think it's a choice between whether the form of the magical staff informs its abilities, or coming in from the opposite side of defining the stats of the magical staff and leaving the cosmetic features un- or loosely-defined.

Were I to word it a different way, I would say that a wizard's staff must conform roughly to the dimensions and aspect of a staff (4'-6' long, 1"-3" diameter) and thus most designs of a wizard's staff follow the classical wooden staff. Other materials are acceptable (even exotic and unreal ones such as bone, crystal, or captured moonbeams), but the magical process of creating the staff gives it the qualities as described in [stat block] regardless of material.

Oh, and your point of it costing more is tracks very well with flashy and fancy elements to any kind of equipment adding a bunch to the price. Fancy runes on the barbarian's axe cost $, the thief's embroidery costs $, and naturally the wizard's sparkly staff costs $.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Kromm

I see zero reason to forbid metal affixed to a magic staff.

I think the question is more along the lines of how this might work in terms of the Staff enchantment extending the mage's sense of touch?

IE being able to touch someone with the tip of the staff. Would that still count as touch-casting if it was a piece of metal attached to the wooden base?

I don't think it would interfere with adding to the effective reach/range for casting regular/thrown spells but in terms of touch-casting or conveying melee spells?

I don't know if DF has the -1 to damage for lacking ferrules that GURPS does (LTC2p14) but the idea of a mage removing those caps to make the staff work properly (and making it less effective in combat) is kind of appealing. But maybe something organic like dragon-bone could be as hard as metal and mages with staffs designed with dragon-bone ferrules won't suffer the -1?

The thing about metal fixation is I'm just picturing a mage casting "Staff" on a wooden handle of a sword (caling it his "wand") and then affixing the blade of a sword to it, and then using the metal tip of the sword to touch-cast or convey flaming spells.

Maybe a compromise if allowing this would be to apply the "casting while wearing metal" penalties? That's intended for armor but if you're channeling through metal additions to a staff it seems like a similar concept.

[Polkageist]

The thing about metal fixation is I'm just picturing a mage casting "Staff" on a wooden handle of a sword (caling it his "wand") and then affixing the blade of a sword to it, and then using the metal tip of the sword to touch-cast or convey flaming spells.

In this situation the intent is so clearly to cheeseball the rules that the obvious answer is that the magic goes *pthbth*

I mean, is the player trying to do something cool or are they trying to sneak an extra scoop of ice cream?