Fear and Loathing In TFT

[JohnPaulB]

Originally Posted by larsdangly

Something you could build on to this end that is part of TFT canon is the Personality option rules on p.7 of ITL. I'm focusing on material for the core published rules right now, but I have a 'module' in my house rules that uses this as a launching off point and develops it into ways of handling horror, morale, and religious piety.

I think this is a great idea for an underutilized extant rule. Sure, it was meant for rolling up NPC characters to give them personality. But it can be used to forward your game too. You can make them when you create your character or you can make them on the spot when you need them. (just log it on your character sheet.)

This Personality options comes right after Select Fighter/Wizard and Race, but before Selecting Attributes: ITL page 7
"PERSONALITY - roll 2 dice to determine each facet of your personality.
Bravery: 12 (very brave) to 2 (total coward)."

and the rule goes on to suggest other Personality traits you can make, with 6-8 being character "average." Other rolls shade you toward the extremes. For creating Personality traits, the high number should be what trying for, thus a high number in Appearance trait gives you more chances at succeeding in a test involving appearance.

Rather than rolling for the personality trait (which goes counter to TFT’s control on building characters), my feeling is that you should envision what your character is like and choose that level of the personality that fits your character.
Example: If you feel that the Joe has little integrity when it comes to holding a position on something, he might get a 4 on Integrity. This means he has a small chance of not wavering if pressed to keep from giving in on a stance.
If you cannot decide what your character should do Or if you want a random forced result that is out of your control, you roll on the Personality Trait.

Same concept when you apply this to Courage. A character with high courage would could be Courage 9. A Courage test result of 11 would be a failure and you suffer the consequences of failing to be courageous.

Same could apply to Willpower or Fear.
As these are not Stats per the official TFT rules, you are not adding new Stats.
Personality Traits results could be suggestions to the player on how to proceed or could be enforced results that take the choice out of the players hands, depending on the player agreements on this before the game starts.

These personality traits could be modified by Talents for certain situations.

To make this fit more into the 3d6 style of rolls, instead of having a 2d6 spread for personality traits, make them 3d6. The GM could even use the crit success or failures concept to this if he wishes. And come to think of it, maybe the personality rolls should be done by the GM and kept secret, with only a descriptive of what the result does.

Originally Posted by Steve Jackson

Plain old 3d6 roll could make sense, modified by GM according to any effective roleplaying of the character's history. I'd give Heniochus the Brave a bonus to stand fast, if only because he thinks he can settle everything with his sword.

If an advantage/disadvantage system is introduced, Bravery, Prudence, and Cowardice might all be descrived in terms of morale/fear/horror rolls.

To my mind, this should be used only for the BIG stuff (Cthulhu) or the transitory stuff (who gets initiative when surprised by something unnatural). I would not roll for fear against natural foes.

I'd like to see Ty's "fear Table".

- Hail Melee

[BobP]

Originally Posted by larsdangly

Something you could build on to this end that is part of TFT canon is the Personality option rules on p.7 of ITL. I'm focusing on material for the core published rules right now, but I have a 'module' in my house rules that uses this as a launching off point and develops it into ways of handling horror, morale, and religious piety.

I was completely blown away when I saw those personality rules. We'd never used them back-when, but they're very handy.

And it turns out that there's some very reliable science now about assessing personality in terms of five spectra which are very similar to what SJ threw in oh those years ago.

So, editorial note: Keep the Personality Traits option. Maybe even expand it a little. :-) If you're really nutty, go to personalitylab.org and play.

(EDIT 20180127: corrected web address. Sorry.)

Bob P
Sparks, NV

[ak_aramis]

Originally Posted by Chris Rice

No, I can't accept any correlation between IQ/INT and bravery, that just doesn't wash with me. There are brave stupid people and brave clever people, and the reverse. So either it's a talent or a new attribute. No other option I can see.

Perhaps rather than an attribute test...

Make the fear an NPC actor... It rolls against a fixed TN... normally on 3d.

Bravery (and perhaps Veteran) talents force the roll to be on more dice.

[JLV]

Certain creatures (ghosts, wights, banshees, revenants, perhaps some undead, the Nazgul, Sauron, Cthulhu, etc) should be able to conduct a "fear attack" on any normal creature, by their very nature, at the instant they are confronted. So no, I don't think it should be restricted to *only* NPCs.

But, as Steve said, it should only apply to PCs under certain specific circumstances (such as when unexpectedly confronted, for example, and, in the cases of Sauron and Cthulhu, perhaps as an ACTION by them against their foes (FEAR ATTACK, could be the name of such an action -- they can move up to half their MA, and then conduct a FEAR attack against their foes, but may not engage in any other ACTION that turn).

And let's not conflate "Fear" with "Morale." For NPCs, I'd be more inclined to use a Morale system that checks at various times if they fight, flee or surrender based on on-going events (initial contact with the party -- they might negotiate here, but that has more to do with REACTION ROLLS than it does Morale -- more than half the NPCs down in combat, etc.)

I think there is a genuine use for such systems in the game.

[ecz]

In my opinion IQ is not only coolness or capability to analyze the situation; at the same time an high ST does not mean no cowardice at all, hence a fear check should be rolled not against a single attribute, but against the average of all three attributes (fractions rounded down).

After all they check their morale as heros. So they can use all hero attributes as a whole.

Thus a 36-38 points PC would roll vs 12, a 39-41 vs 13 and so on.


Several talents, Veteran? Priest? Naturalist? Master Physician? coud give +1/+2 as the GM feels appropriate.

Failing the fear check the PC is "freezed" or "runs away" at max MA until they pass the check (a roll per turn is allowed).

At least this is how I have played fear checks.

[JLV]

Originally Posted by ecz

In my opinion IQ is not only coolness or capability to analyze the situation; at the same time an high ST does not mean no cowardice at all, hence a fear check should be rolled not against a single attribute, but against the average of all three attributes (fractions rounded down).

After all they check their morale as heros. So they can use all hero attributes as a whole.

Thus a 36-38 points PC would roll vs 12, a 39-41 vs 13 and so on.


Several talents, Veteran? Priest? Naturalist? Master Physician? coud give +1/+2 as the GM feels appropriate.

Failing the fear check the PC is "freezed" or "runs away" at max MA until they pass the check (a roll per turn is allowed).

At least this is how I have played fear checks.

Those are not bad ideas! Though, if one of my players failed a fear check, they would run for 1d6 turns...

Again, a FEAR check is a different thing from a MORALE check, and should have different implications. Being scared out of your wits might be a saving roll against IQ. What you seem to be addressing more here is a MORALE check, which ought to be rolled differently -- your suggestion here is a good one -- and ought to have different results possible; such as surrender, flee, or fight defensively for a while. A FEAR check, by comparison should have such potential results as flee, faint, freeze, etc.

Fear checks would be initiated when the figures saw something truly horrifying or were attacked by certain creatures able to emanate fear (Ghosts, etc. as listed above). Morale checks would only be used sparingly by the Heroes, and then probably only when confronted with truly massive opponents (14-hex dragons) or large numbers of dangerous ones (50 Orcs, for example). Morale checks would be more useful for controlling NPC reactions than it would the Heroes, since the Heroes are supposed to be...well...heroic.

Just my $0.02 on the difference between the two...

[ecz]

Originally Posted by JLV

Those are not bad ideas! Though, if one of my players failed a fear check, they would run for 1d6 turns...

Again, a FEAR check is a different thing from a MORALE check, and should have different implications. Being scared out of your wits might be a saving roll against IQ. What you seem to be addressing more here is a MORALE check, which ought to be rolled differently -- your suggestion here is a good one -- and ought to have different results possible; such as surrender, flee, or fight defensively for a while. A FEAR check, by comparison should have such potential results as flee, faint, freeze, etc.

Fear checks would be initiated when the figures saw something truly horrifying or were attacked by certain creatures able to emanate fear (Ghosts, etc. as listed above). Morale checks would only be used sparingly by the Heroes, and then probably only when confronted with truly massive opponents (14-hex dragons) or large numbers of dangerous ones (50 Orcs, for example). Morale checks would be more useful for controlling NPC reactions than it would the Heroes, since the Heroes are supposed to be...well...heroic.

Just my $0.02 on the difference between the two...

well, I understand the difference. But my idea is to keep things simple. So I do not feel the need to have a Morale Check and a different Fear Check.

Morale Checks are'nt for PC, I agree. Fear Checks yes, they could.

So I think that a roll vs the average of the total points of the hero is the right way to test their heroicity. I called it Morale check, but - however we call it - it is necessary only when PCs are in front of something really frightening like ghosts, undeads, giant beetles, Demons, Mutants, for example.

also I forgot to mention that when a PC re-encounter again the same "kind" of creature that causes terror, the test the following times is easier until the Hero ignores any agitation after the second or third time he successfully passes the test.

About reactions for the failed test, that is flee or freeze, I simply use a d6: 1-3 flee, 4-6 freeze ignoring any tactic or logic convenience for the PC.

[JLV]

See, I see Fear checks as a completely separate and highly useful thing, especially when confronted with specific monsters/creatures/situations. Even more so if you are going to include things like "phobias" or sanity in the game -- as someone who wants to play a TFT version of, say, Ravenloft.

For me, a Morale check system would be primarily intended for use with NPCs and would govern their reactions in a way that is neither necessary nor normally desirable with player characters.

[BrotherBill]

Originally Posted by Chris Rice

That's fine but 3d6 roll against what though? Can't be IQ surely. So what exactly are you rolling against?

Why not IQ? Willpower and faith are more closely related to IQ than they are to ST or DX.

[Rick_Smith]

Originally Posted by Chris Rice

No, I can't accept any correlation between IQ/INT and bravery, that just doesn't wash with me. There are brave stupid people and brave clever people, and the reverse. So either it's a talent or a new attribute. No other option I can see.

Hi all, Chris.
In my campaign I use the Bravery personality value from ITL on page 7. People roll against it to avoid panic. You can't raise it with experience (so it is not really an attribute). However, I do let people slowly change it (say one point per real life year).

Most bravery rolls are 2vsBv, but occasionally you get a 3vsBv. Having a cleric about and a couple other things help, giving a +2 modifier. And really, scary, mind bending things give negatives of course.

If you panic, then possession and will rolls are harder, so things that want to take you over, like to scare you silly first. (Will and possession rolls are against IQ.)

Warm regards, Rick.