Spells without the Spell system

Guilt · 09-10-2019, 04:20 PM

Hi there,

My GM is running a 4e fantasy game but because of some bad experiences with the magic system (from the previous campaign I was in) we're vetoing the 4e magic in favour of powers with the magic tag (-10% discount so long as they are so flavoured).

As I'm playing a hybrid of spellcaster and warrior, I'm trying to create the equivalent of your typical DnD style spell list but could really use some help for the utility spells. Problems I've run into just because of cost have been brief area stun/status effects, healing or protecting allies and ways to use "macic" IE advantages in a fight which aren't just direct damage Innate attacks.

Does anyone have some fun ideas for utility "Spells" to round out my current pool beyond my unimaginative Light Spell (accessory torch), Mage hand (TK 2), Fog (Obscure, sight, ranged 3) and various flavours of damage (the easiest to play with)?

Anaraxes · 09-10-2019, 04:37 PM

GURPS Psionic Powers, Sorcery and Sorcery: Protection and Warning Spells, and Chinese Elemental Powers all use a magic-as-powers approach. They're likely useful for ideas and inspiration, if not direct use.

An old thread with some spells from user dfinlay:
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...23#post1915323

I think Raekai also had a list, either homebrew or conversion of D&D spells. But I couldn't find a link easily, so I may be misremembering.

In the meantime, take a look at Binding for the basis of a lot of "crowd control" effects, the Wall Enhancement for Innate Attacks (which turns crushing attacks into, well, Walls), Affliction, which is the way to put debilitating effects like pain or nausea on enemies, rather than damage. You can also Afflict various Advantages or Disadvantages like Obsession to give them odd mental effects like fear (assuming you want a D&D style "run away" rather than just Terror). Affliction can also be the basis for doing some things to enemies like "teleport other".

AlexanderHowl · 09-10-2019, 05:36 PM

A couple of suggestions would be the following:

Cantrips: Modular Ability 1 (Cosmic Abilities; Mental, Physical, and Social, +150%; Magic, -10%) [24]. Notes: An ability that represents the basic cantrips of every magical tradition.

Deathtouch: Toxic Attack 4d (Malediction, +100%; Magic, -10%; Melee, C, No Parry, -35%) [25]. Notes: A necromantic attack that requires the user to touch their target.

Major Healing: Healing (Capped, 4 FP, -20%; Injuries Only, -20%; Magic, -10%; Xenohealing, Anything Animate, +100%) [45]. Notes: An ability that allows the user to heal up to 8 HP of damage for anything animate.

Refplace · 09-10-2019, 05:48 PM

All the Powers as Magic systems are compatible and at least easily cross-mined for your own builds.
Sorcery is built off Modular Abilities and thus the most flexible.
Also there are a lot of fan based builds, the best site for which is by eggplant.
https://enragedeggplant.blogspot.com...ell-index.html

Thaumatology is a good model for a specialist along the lines of Magic Styles.
Psionics is another way to approach the subject, most of the builds wont fit the typical mage. However it explores the power stunt rules which could be another stylist/specialist way to go.
Finally Totems and Nature Spirits, while not intended as a standalone system provides the nuggets of one and the basis for a possession or summoning based style of magic. Its focus is directed towards a shaman as powers but could be adapted for demons, divine servitors, etc.

Anders · 09-11-2019, 01:46 AM

Check out Enraged Eggplant's Sorcery page. There are hundreds of them. Just rebuild them to use Magic rather than Sorcery and you're fine.

maximara · 09-11-2019, 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guilt

Hi there,

My GM is running a 4e fantasy game but because of some bad experiences with the magic system (from the previous campaign I was in) we're vetoing the 4e magic in favour of powers with the magic tag (-10% discount so long as they are so flavoured).

I am move curious as to what went so horribly wrong as to put that much effort into totally replacing GURPS Magic with a homebrew system rather then going with one of the already provided alternatives (such as Rune magic)

Bruno · 09-11-2019, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maximara

I am move curious as to what went so horribly wrong as to put that much effort into totally replacing GURPS Magic with a homebrew system rather then going with one of the already provided alternatives (such as Rune magic)

Magic as Powers isn't a homebrew system at all?

johndallman · 09-11-2019, 06:06 AM

A large list of D&D spells converted to powers is here. I've never used them.

maximara · 09-11-2019, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruno

Magic as Powers isn't a homebrew system at all?

I'm not sure what you are trying to ask here.

Magic as Powers requires a lot of work and makes me recall my time with the Hero System where every freaking spell was built via powers. Gads was it time consuming as all get out to design spells.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johndallman

A large list of D&D spells converted to powers is here. I've never used them.

Wow that is a lot of work. But the point cost for these things, ugh. Welcome to the Hero System by way of GURPS.

This is why Hero System wizards didn't tend to have a lot of spells - they were very expensive in terms of points.

False Magical Aura at [62]? For that amount of points one could have magery 3 [45] and have 17 points left over to get Illusion and Creation spells with. That is almost as bas as GURPS 1e Super's Magic Power [40/level] where any standard GURPS classic mage, even if they didn't have access to the Grimoire, would curb stomp near any other 400 point character as long as they weren't acting like a typical Silver Age villain/hero (ie the IQ of a cinderblock about 90% of the time)

AlexanderHowl · 09-11-2019, 07:02 AM

Powers as Magic isn't that bad, you are just not going to get a lot of spells. If you want prerequisite chains for magic (you need X power before Y power), you may want a skill tree.

For example, Cantrips [24] is a prerequisite for learning Flame Strike. Flame Strike is Burning Attack 4d (Accuracy+4, +20; Increased 1/2 D Range, 5x, +10%; Magic, -10%) [24]. Fireball is Burning Attack 4d (Accuracy+4, +20%; Explosive, +50%; Increased Range, 1/2D, 5x, +10%; Magic, -10%; Selectivity, +10%) [36] and is an improvement of Flame Strike, meaning the upgrade cost is just [+12 CP]. Firestorm is Burning Attack 4d (Accuracy+4, +20%; Area Effect, 4 yards, +100%; Increased Range, 5x, +20%; Magic, -10%; Selectivity, +10%) [48] and is an improvement over Fireball, meaning the upgrade cost is just [+12 CP]. By using such skill trees, you can have a quite sophisticated magical system.

09-10-2019, 04:20 PM	#1
Guilt Join Date: Sep 2019	Spells without the Spell system Hi there, My GM is running a 4e fantasy game but because of some bad experiences with the magic system (from the previous campaign I was in) we're vetoing the 4e magic in favour of powers with the magic tag (-10% discount so long as they are so flavoured). As I'm playing a hybrid of spellcaster and warrior, I'm trying to create the equivalent of your typical DnD style spell list but could really use some help for the utility spells. Problems I've run into just because of cost have been brief area stun/status effects, healing or protecting allies and ways to use "macic" IE advantages in a fight which aren't just direct damage Innate attacks. Does anyone have some fun ideas for utility "Spells" to round out my current pool beyond my unimaginative Light Spell (accessory torch), Mage hand (TK 2), Fog (Obscure, sight, ranged 3) and various flavours of damage (the easiest to play with)?

09-10-2019, 04:37 PM	#2
Anaraxes Join Date: Sep 2007	Re: Spells without the Spell system GURPS Psionic Powers, Sorcery and Sorcery: Protection and Warning Spells, and Chinese Elemental Powers all use a magic-as-powers approach. They're likely useful for ideas and inspiration, if not direct use. An old thread with some spells from user dfinlay: http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...23#post1915323 I think Raekai also had a list, either homebrew or conversion of D&D spells. But I couldn't find a link easily, so I may be misremembering. In the meantime, take a look at Binding for the basis of a lot of "crowd control" effects, the Wall Enhancement for Innate Attacks (which turns crushing attacks into, well, Walls), Affliction, which is the way to put debilitating effects like pain or nausea on enemies, rather than damage. You can also Afflict various Advantages or Disadvantages like Obsession to give them odd mental effects like fear (assuming you want a D&D style "run away" rather than just Terror). Affliction can also be the basis for doing some things to enemies like "teleport other". Last edited by Anaraxes; 09-10-2019 at 04:42 PM.

09-10-2019, 05:36 PM	#3
AlexanderHowl Join Date: Feb 2016	Re: Spells without the Spell system A couple of suggestions would be the following: Cantrips: Modular Ability 1 (Cosmic Abilities; Mental, Physical, and Social, +150%; Magic, -10%) [24]. Notes: An ability that represents the basic cantrips of every magical tradition. Deathtouch: Toxic Attack 4d (Malediction, +100%; Magic, -10%; Melee, C, No Parry, -35%) [25]. Notes: A necromantic attack that requires the user to touch their target. Major Healing: Healing (Capped, 4 FP, -20%; Injuries Only, -20%; Magic, -10%; Xenohealing, Anything Animate, +100%) [45]. Notes: An ability that allows the user to heal up to 8 HP of damage for anything animate.

09-10-2019, 05:48 PM	#4
Refplace Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Yukon, OK	Re: Spells without the Spell system All the Powers as Magic systems are compatible and at least easily cross-mined for your own builds. Sorcery is built off Modular Abilities and thus the most flexible. Also there are a lot of fan based builds, the best site for which is by eggplant. https://enragedeggplant.blogspot.com...ell-index.html Thaumatology is a good model for a specialist along the lines of Magic Styles. Psionics is another way to approach the subject, most of the builds wont fit the typical mage. However it explores the power stunt rules which could be another stylist/specialist way to go. Finally Totems and Nature Spirits, while not intended as a standalone system provides the nuggets of one and the basis for a possession or summoning based style of magic. Its focus is directed towards a shaman as powers but could be adapted for demons, divine servitors, etc. __________________ My GURPS publications GURPS Powers: Totem and Nature Spirits; GURPS Template Toolkit 4: Spirits; Pyramid articles. Buying them lets us know you want more! My GURPS fan contribution and blog: REFPLace GURPS Landing Page My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items) My GURPS Wiki entries

09-11-2019, 01:46 AM	#5
Anders Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Gothenburg, Sweden	Re: Spells without the Spell system Check out Enraged Eggplant's Sorcery page. There are hundreds of them. Just rebuild them to use Magic rather than Sorcery and you're fine. __________________ “When you arise in the morning think of what a privilege it is to be alive, to think, to enjoy, to love ...” Marcus Aurelius

09-11-2019, 06:06 AM	#8
johndallman Night Watchman Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Cambridge, UK	Re: Spells without the Spell system A large list of D&D spells converted to powers is here. I've never used them. __________________ The Path of Cunning. Indexes: DFRPG Characters, Advantage of the Week, Disadvantage of the Week, Skill of the Week, Techniques.

09-11-2019, 07:02 AM	#10
AlexanderHowl Join Date: Feb 2016	Re: Spells without the Spell system Powers as Magic isn't that bad, you are just not going to get a lot of spells. If you want prerequisite chains for magic (you need X power before Y power), you may want a skill tree. For example, Cantrips [24] is a prerequisite for learning Flame Strike. Flame Strike is Burning Attack 4d (Accuracy+4, +20; Increased 1/2 D Range, 5x, +10%; Magic, -10%) [24]. Fireball is Burning Attack 4d (Accuracy+4, +20%; Explosive, +50%; Increased Range, 1/2D, 5x, +10%; Magic, -10%; Selectivity, +10%) [36] and is an improvement of Flame Strike, meaning the upgrade cost is just [+12 CP]. Firestorm is Burning Attack 4d (Accuracy+4, +20%; Area Effect, 4 yards, +100%; Increased Range, 5x, +20%; Magic, -10%; Selectivity, +10%) [48] and is an improvement over Fireball, meaning the upgrade cost is just [+12 CP]. By using such skill trees, you can have a quite sophisticated magical system.