Spells without the Spell system

[Guilt]

Hi there,

My GM is running a 4e fantasy game but because of some bad experiences with the magic system (from the previous campaign I was in) we're vetoing the 4e magic in favour of powers with the magic tag (-10% discount so long as they are so flavoured).

As I'm playing a hybrid of spellcaster and warrior, I'm trying to create the equivalent of your typical DnD style spell list but could really use some help for the utility spells. Problems I've run into just because of cost have been brief area stun/status effects, healing or protecting allies and ways to use "macic" IE advantages in a fight which aren't just direct damage Innate attacks.

Does anyone have some fun ideas for utility "Spells" to round out my current pool beyond my unimaginative Light Spell (accessory torch), Mage hand (TK 2), Fog (Obscure, sight, ranged 3) and various flavours of damage (the easiest to play with)?

[Anaraxes]

GURPS Psionic Powers, Sorcery and Sorcery: Protection and Warning Spells, and Chinese Elemental Powers all use a magic-as-powers approach. They're likely useful for ideas and inspiration, if not direct use.

An old thread with some spells from user dfinlay:
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...23#post1915323

I think Raekai also had a list, either homebrew or conversion of D&D spells. But I couldn't find a link easily, so I may be misremembering.

In the meantime, take a look at Binding for the basis of a lot of "crowd control" effects, the Wall Enhancement for Innate Attacks (which turns crushing attacks into, well, Walls), Affliction, which is the way to put debilitating effects like pain or nausea on enemies, rather than damage. You can also Afflict various Advantages or Disadvantages like Obsession to give them odd mental effects like fear (assuming you want a D&D style "run away" rather than just Terror). Affliction can also be the basis for doing some things to enemies like "teleport other".

[AlexanderHowl]

A couple of suggestions would be the following:

Cantrips: Modular Ability 1 (Cosmic Abilities; Mental, Physical, and Social, +150%; Magic, -10%) [24]. Notes: An ability that represents the basic cantrips of every magical tradition.

Deathtouch: Toxic Attack 4d (Malediction, +100%; Magic, -10%; Melee, C, No Parry, -35%) [25]. Notes: A necromantic attack that requires the user to touch their target.

Major Healing: Healing (Capped, 4 FP, -20%; Injuries Only, -20%; Magic, -10%; Xenohealing, Anything Animate, +100%) [45]. Notes: An ability that allows the user to heal up to 8 HP of damage for anything animate.

[Refplace]

All the Powers as Magic systems are compatible and at least easily cross-mined for your own builds.
Sorcery is built off Modular Abilities and thus the most flexible.
Also there are a lot of fan based builds, the best site for which is by eggplant.
https://enragedeggplant.blogspot.com...ell-index.html

Thaumatology is a good model for a specialist along the lines of Magic Styles.
Psionics is another way to approach the subject, most of the builds wont fit the typical mage. However it explores the power stunt rules which could be another stylist/specialist way to go.
Finally Totems and Nature Spirits, while not intended as a standalone system provides the nuggets of one and the basis for a possession or summoning based style of magic. Its focus is directed towards a shaman as powers but could be adapted for demons, divine servitors, etc.

[Anders]

Check out Enraged Eggplant's Sorcery page. There are hundreds of them. Just rebuild them to use Magic rather than Sorcery and you're fine.

[Raekai]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

I think Raekai also had a list, either homebrew or conversion of D&D spells. But I couldn't find a link easily, so I may be misremembering.

I don't, but now I wish I did. I just started converting Magic to RPM. Though, for magic as powers, I'll definitely throw in another vote for Enraged Eggplant's stuff.

[ericthered]

Originally Posted by maximara

Which is the problem. Look at your average DC mage and realize just how many spells they cast. As I said before a 400 point GURPS Magic mage could tear a 400 point Magic Power wizard a new one.

Why are DC mages's particularly relevant? different depictions of wizards have different numbers are varieties of spells.

while the 400 point gurps mage has a wide range of abilities and is extremely versatile, he generally has to husband his power a lot more cautiously than a 400 point pyromancer/illusionist. Powers lets you use your abilities every turn, and that's a huge advantage, even if the scope of what you can do is smaller.

Allowing alternate abilities is hugely important. If they're not allowed powers can rapidly fall behind other magic systems. In fact, several gurps "magic systems" are just worked examples of alternate ability systems.

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Additional spells can be modeled through the rules for improvising modifiers and for using abilities at default.

This is really key to making the system work. Its especially appropriate when tweaking existing abilities.

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I find that magic as powers works best when you pick a specialty or two. Rather than going for a "Greatest Hits" List, pick a few aspects of magic and think about all the things you could do with it. Think about how to damage, how to incapacitate, how to obscure or deceive, and how to use it for movement.

Specialties I encourage you to look at include Illusion (a lot of classic wizard story stuff is illusion based), Mind effects, and Pyromancy. Detection magic can also be really fun and useful.

One thing powers does a lot better than other magic systems is raw damage. It can be painfully slow/expensive to build and throw a fireball in RPM or the standard magic system, but powers lets you build a wizard who can burn down armies.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by ericthered

Allowing alternate abilities is hugely important. If they're not allowed powers can rapidly fall behind other magic systems. In fact, several gurps "magic systems" are just worked examples of alternate ability systems.


This is really key to making the system work. Its especially appropriate when tweaking existing abilities.

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One thing powers does a lot better than other magic systems is raw damage. It can be painfully slow/expensive to build and throw a fireball in RPM or the standard magic system, but powers lets you build a wizard who can burn down armies.

Yep. Divine Favor (Patron), Sorcery (Modular Abilities), Totem and Nature Spirits (Alternate Form). Easy enough to pick any other power as the starting point.
Dont overlook the other approach though which is Power Stunts with Techniques such as Psionic Powers.
That is even more versatile, though more FP heavy and gets a nod in Sorcery.

[AlexanderHowl]

Yes, you can create an ability that can burn down cities for 50 CP. For example, Rain of Fire-Burning Attack 1d (Accurate, +10, +50%; Area Effect, 1024 yards, +500%; Extended Duration, 300x, +100%; Homing, +50%; Incendiary, +10%; Increased Range, 1000x, +90%; Overhead, +30%; Persistant, +40%; Selective Area, +20%; Selectivity, +10%) [50]. An area equal to a square mile burns for nearly an hour, and it is hot enough to catch nearly everything on fire.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by Guilt

Hi there,

My GM is running a 4e fantasy game but because of some bad experiences with the magic system (from the previous campaign I was in) we're vetoing the 4e magic in favour of powers with the magic tag (-10% discount so long as they are so flavoured).

I am move curious as to what went so horribly wrong as to put that much effort into totally replacing GURPS Magic with a homebrew system rather then going with one of the already provided alternatives (such as Rune magic)