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Old 09-29-2019, 10:09 PM   #11
Sorenant
 
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Default Re: [DF] How Many Abilities Should A Race Get?

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Universal Appearance doesn't work for sexual attraction.
Do you have source for that? I looked up Basic and Social Engineering and found nothing with a cursory (ctrl+f) check.
As I understand Universal shifts the bonus given to the flat bonus instead of gender dependent, but like Androgynous it's still a "sexy" positive appearance. Are you not confusing it with Impressing? This version also uses flat bonus, but it represents "presence", giving bonus to Intimidate instead of Sex Appeal.
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Old 09-30-2019, 03:09 AM   #12
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Default Re: [DF] How Many Abilities Should A Race Get?

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Do you have source for that? I looked up Basic and Social Engineering and found nothing with a cursory (ctrl+f) check.
As I understand Universal shifts the bonus given to the flat bonus instead of gender dependent, but like Androgynous it's still a "sexy" positive appearance. Are you not confusing it with Impressing? This version also uses flat bonus, but it represents "presence", giving bonus to Intimidate instead of Sex Appeal.
First check through looks like I was confusing it with Impressive, but given what's happening with Universal and this vague memory I've got of a Kromm quote I don't think it's sexual at all, and given how things works in GURPS that might make sense, Androgynous is the version you take if you want everyone to be sexually attracted to you.
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Old 09-30-2019, 08:35 AM   #13
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Default Re: [DF] How Many Abilities Should A Race Get?

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First check through looks like I was confusing it with Impressive, but given what's happening with Universal and this vague memory I've got of a Kromm quote I don't think it's sexual at all, and given how things works in GURPS that might make sense, Androgynous is the version you take if you want everyone to be sexually attracted to you.
I looked up and and these posts seems to be the most relevant ones: 1 2 3 4
As I understand, Androgynous gives a flat reaction bonus due to positive sexual appearance from both sexes but is limited to reaction from your own race or those similar to it, the range of people affected doesn't change and while you get reduced reaction from opposite sex, you also get better reaction from those of same sex, that's why it's a +0% modifier.
Universal works similarly, it's also a flat bonus from any sex but it drastically increases the range of people affected. An Androgynous person might seduce men and women alike, but not dragons or blobs. An Universal succubi won't face such restrictions, which makes the modifier cost more than Androgynous at +25%.
According to the second Kromm post, what I gather is that the skill bonus appearance gives depends on the target. If a Succubi is dealing with male humans, female orcs, or a transsexual dragon, she gets bonus to Sex Appeal because those are races with the concept of sex. However against blobs that reproduce through binary fission, a crystalloid born out of crystallized impure iron in the core of the planet, or other assexual beings, the bonus won't be to Sex Appeal but something else, likely Intimidate.
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Old 09-30-2019, 11:37 AM   #14
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Default Re: [DF] How Many Abilities Should A Race Get?

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(...)Those are a LOT rarer, and they don't always exist even when Succubi do.
I suppose you are talking about your universe, right?

I am not implying you should add them; however, besides feeding from human fluids, succubi drain the sperm of men, and take it to the incubi. Then the incubi employs said sperm on females to reproduce. Hence, you get the 50-50% population by gender. There's also the "artificial way" to create incubi/succubi, that could change the population by gender; but I leave that to you.

Regarding your OP, the basic succubi would be A-OK if you make a template with 3 things:

Advantages:
1. Appearance above average
2. Awe (opposite sex only)
3. Vampiric touch (to heal oneself or to heal others)
3.1 HP/FP pool for Vampiric touch functions

Disadvantages would be:
1. Fright check before entering sacred places or seeing holy symbols
2. Chummy towards virgin people
3. Cannot heal unless having sex or receiving bodily fluids (but might heal using the HP/FP pool)


The others you mentioned in the OP (not in my suggestions list) are secondary. So, as the characters gain points, they get the chance of adding other traits such as voice, appearance above attractive and/or the universal modifier, morph, infectious attack, growing wings, levitating, hypnosis, love magic (it's on GURPS Magic), flexibility, etc.
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Old 09-30-2019, 01:37 PM   #15
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Default Re: [DF] How Many Abilities Should A Race Get?

Another common variant is that Incubi and Succubi are even the same creature.

The Demon shows up in female form, 'steals' the seed of a male human, then takes male form and impregnates a female human with it.

Convenient way for medieval-time people to explain how nuns managed to get pregnant despite celibates...
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Old 09-30-2019, 02:07 PM   #16
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Default Re: [DF] How Many Abilities Should A Race Get?

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I am not implying you should add them; however, besides feeding from human fluids, succubi drain the sperm of men, and take it to the incubi. Then the incubi employs said sperm on females to reproduce.
Some myths have just a single demon, that can transform between male and female depending on if it needs to take on the role of succubus or incubus. I’ve always felt this was a big part of the “cubi are shapeshifters” concept taking root.

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Cannot heal unless having sex or receiving bodily fluids (but might heal using the HP/FP pool)
This would possibly be more problematic than it first appears, as successful seduction and subsequent rigorous physical activity is rather contraindicated by gaping chest wounds.
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Old 09-30-2019, 02:16 PM   #17
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Convenient way for medieval-time people to explain how nuns managed to get pregnant despite celibates...
I’ve long assumed the succubus/incubus link was used to explain both “impossible” pregnancies and why the baby often had some resemblance to a local man. Obviously, the succubus attacked the celibate priest, then (as an incubus) attacked the celibate nun to impregnate her - what other explanation could there possibly be?
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Old 09-30-2019, 02:25 PM   #18
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Succubi having wings pre-dates that by a lot, like dating back to at least the Bible. And bat wings didn't start there either, and Morrigan is one of the ones that has the weird bit where the wings are attached to the hips, not the back, which creates more problems.
I’ve no doubt they were depicted with bat wings prior to that - Darkstalkers obviously got the idea from somewhere* - but I feel Morrigan solidified it. I always forget the odd placement of her wings; my assumption would be the placement worked better visually for her attacks (where she often incorporates shapeshifted wings into both punches and kicks). I can imagine other reasons a succubus would benefit from shapeshifting wings on her hips, but those aren’t exactly forum-appropriate.

*Apparently, early in the design process they intended for her to be a female vampire, so the bat connection could actually be from there. Humorously, they originally intended for her to be the “cute” female character, and for Felicia to be the “sexy” female character, but later changed their minds and reversed their roles.

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Those are a LOT rarer, and they don't always exist even when Succubi do.
Agreed. I’d assume one reason is because there’s generally a degree of predatory behavior associated with cubi, and given its particular nature, people regard it as less squicky when the predator is female. Also, I think most media with cubi tends to be targeted toward heterosexual males, so of course the dangerously-sexy demons/monsters are going to be female.

(Apologies for the triple post, got distracted in the middle of the first one and by the time I got back to it, forgot I already had this one in another tab, ready to integrate with it)
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Old 09-30-2019, 05:35 PM   #19
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Default Re: [DF] How Many Abilities Should A Race Get?

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I’ve no doubt they were depicted with bat wings prior to that...
Yeah, like in antiquity when they were equated to being sirens.
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Old 09-30-2019, 07:15 PM   #20
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Default Re: [DF] How Many Abilities Should A Race Get?

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Some myths have just a single demon, that can transform (...)
Yeah, that’s alright; you can find such cases in some myths.

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Yeah, like in antiquity when they were equated to being sirens.
Indeed!

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This would possibly be more problematic than it first appears, as successful seduction and subsequent rigorous physical activity is rather contraindicated by gaping chest wounds.
I don’t get your point on that one.

The disadvantage I meant was “draining”, with a variation to make it similar to “hemophilia”.

A succubus does not need to hurt or seduce somebody to make leech (vampiric touch) work; it only needs contact (e.g. a grapple).

Also the succubus does not need to seduce people to receive a bodily fluid to start healing; the creature can simply receive a “donation” from a party member (blood, sperm, saliva, etc.) to start healing or if in battle, taste the blood of enemies to start healing.

Now, almost any creature will have trouble if it happens to receive a gaping chest wound. For the succubus, think of receiving a bodily fluid as being provided with first aid.

Succubus or not, perhaps most of the weight around a chest-gaping-wound, rests on properly treating the wound after receiving first-aid, that’s something else.

Ad well... being a succubus is not a smooth deal, it’s akin to being cursed. If a player wants his PC become/be one, there should be a meaningful disadvantage lying behind having access to abilities greater than a human’s.

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Thanks largely to Morrigan Aensland (...)
I agree Morrigan is among the first things appearing when you make an average internet search.

Still, Morrigan is not the best example for this subject, and certainly not "largely" the reason why succubus have wings. Succubus have wings because they are considered demons.

The Dark-stalkers series basically feature two kind of characters: Vampires and Hunters. Metaphorically, Morrigan is a vampire; she is a succubus indeed (her design notes say so), but she shares traits with stereotypical vampires (hence her bat wings, the bat motif on her attire, etc.). Take into account that this game was developed in Japan, so they took certain freedom during character design. Morrigan’s wings on her hips are part of her dress, so to say. In GURPS terms she has flight (no wings required) and lots of natural-weapon-type attacks. Anakaris is also a metaphoric vampire, but he is a mummy. Lei-lei is also a vampire, but she’s a zombie… etc.
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