[Magic] A Pound Takes Up 2 Cubic FEET?!

[Dalillama]

Originally Posted by scc

But the person commissioning the item won't pay until they get their item. So if you quit one year into a two year project, you're probably not getting paid for that years work, and neither is anyone you where working with

They will if they want to see an item. It's a seller's market, if you won't put down half as a deposit the Duke of Faltan will, he's been after us for a new sword for a year already.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Dalillama

They will if they want to see an item. It's a seller's market, if you won't put down half as a deposit the Duke of Faltan will, he's been after us for a new sword for a year already.

On the other hand, you don't stiff the Duke of Fallan unless the alterantive is even worse.

It's not a seller's market when the Duke could mutter "Will no one rid me of this turbulent enchanter?" and have 4 men-at-arms rush off to do just that.

Rich but common merchants might face a seller's market (or at least pay actual money to assassins rather than just drop hints) but they aren't a prime sector of the sword-buying market.

A Mage-Lord whose powers make him a lord in his own right might have the advantage over mundane nobles but magical tradesmen won't.

[scc]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

The smart enchanter gets half up front. Or even all of it if they have the reputation to leverage such a demand. Or the power of a guild behind them

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

As in typical in the modern day for building contractors, at least in my area. That's mostly (at least theoretically) for materials, though, so the worker isn't out of pocket.

Anyone rich enough to afford an enchanted item could likely also pay on an installment plan, should the enchanter be worried about covering weekly or monthly expenses. The price may be listed as one number, but that doesn't mean that's the way it has to be paid. That kind of social convention is up to the setting, not the game rules. (It's not like the Traveller rules, with their built-in mortgage interest rates and periods...) There's no requirement for the enchanter to be self-supporting for a year or two.

Originally Posted by Dalillama

They will if they want to see an item. It's a seller's market, if you won't put down half as a deposit the Duke of Faltan will, he's been after us for a new sword for a year already.

Or they could use an escrow service. The point is that if someone drops out halfway through the project you have to start over, with no extra money from the client.

Originally Posted by evileeyore

Except they can take breaks. Between commissions.

This is where a guild shines. As a guilder, you work on teams until a specific project is complete, take a break, then pick up a new project when you return. The guild is continuously working on enchantments so is continuously making money and spreading out the risk and rewards across the guild members.

Your the one arguing for multi-year projects.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by scc

Your the one arguing for multi-year projects.

No, I'm the one arguing that "It takes a long time" isn't a hard limit, Mr. "Hideaway maxes at 100 pounds".

[Calvin]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

No, I'm the one arguing that "It takes a long time" isn't a hard limit, Mr. "Hideaway maxes at 100 pounds".

Actually Hideaway maxes at 34.5lbs because the practical limit for Q&D enchanting is 1725FP and it would take 69 days to match it.

The fact is it's possible to argue for any made up limit based on the circumstances. Any limit would be exactly that, circumstantial. Given enough time, enough large powerstones, and enough skill on the part of the circle master, you could reach any arbitrary size of Hideaway given time. Whether it be Q&D or S&S.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Calvin

Actually Hideaway maxes...

No, it doesn't. There is no cap. There is no "practical" limit aside from whatever you set for your game. Stop trying to set limits for others, thanks.

Though, depending on how you read Q&D, that 1725 number of yours takes 17 straight* hours of casting... so you might just have a hard limit of "how long can the enchanter stay awake and casting".



* Nothing says Q&D get to take breaks, unlike S&S.

[scc]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

No, I'm the one arguing that "It takes a long time" isn't a hard limit, Mr. "Hideaway maxes at 100 pounds".

No, I'm arguing that it's a functional limit, going beyond it is technically possible, but there's not enough reason to. The price of the Hideaway goes from $60k to north of $2 million (And that's a low ball) when you switch from Q&D to S&S and it's not even that useful because it still weigh 100 pounds

Originally Posted by Calvin

Actually Hideaway maxes at 34.5lbs because the practical limit for Q&D enchanting is 1725FP and it would take 69 days to match it.

The fact is it's possible to argue for any made up limit based on the circumstances. Any limit would be exactly that, circumstantial. Given enough time, enough large powerstones, and enough skill on the part of the circle master, you could reach any arbitrary size of Hideaway given time. Whether it be Q&D or S&S.

Q&D is limited by number of mages in a circle, how long they can stay awake, and external energy. External energy need not be Powerstones, past a certain point dancing girls for a Cone of Power are cheaper. Take the number of mages, multiply it by hours awake and then then 10 for how powerful an enchantment. For S&S external energy doesn't matter, nor does staying awake. Take the cap on Q&D and divide it by circle size, and then ask yourself if you would be prepared to work that many continuous days at a job with no time off.

Also keep in mind that in a setting with lots of enchanting that Q&D likely pays more and still gives you work weekends free.

[Calvin]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

Woosh

I was being sarcastic. It's exactly my point that there is not hard limit. My point was that 100 is just as arbitrary a limit as 99, or 101, or 69.

[Anaraxes]

Originally Posted by scc

The point is that if someone drops out halfway through the project you have to start over, with no extra money from the client

Or you finish it on spec (if you can afford your upkeep), and keep all the money from the sale as well as well as the forfeited down payment, thus making more than normal for the risk. That depends in part on external factors like the market for such items. (Yet Another +1 Long Sword in Faerun is an easy sell if you go ahead and finish it, whereas the Obsessed Baron's Collar of Treat Summoning for Fluffy might just go into the trash half-finished when it turns out that the baron's other eccentricities have bankrupted his estate. Though some of the mats, like all those jewels in the collar, might be salvageable.)

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

Or you finish it on spec...

What scc means is that if even one apprentice enchanter drops out fo the project (of the full crew) then the enchanting stops dead. You can't (by the RAW) just replace that apprentice with another apprentice, every mage that starts teh job must see it through to the end.


I dropped those rules and just adjust how long the enchanting takes based on the number of mages remaining.