Maximum Duration Limitation on Alternate Form or Morph, abusive?

[ericbsmith]

Originally Posted by blacksmith

But this screams alternate abilities. So he should only buy one at full price and the rest at 20% of their final cost.

HuH? You don't apply Alternate Abilities to Alternate Forms. AF already gets a big point break in that you only have to pay for the single most expensive form. Applying AA to it is just plain silly.

[blacksmith]

Originally Posted by ericbsmith

HuH? You don't apply Alternate Abilities to Alternate Forms. AF already gets a big point break in that you only have to pay for the single most expensive form. Applying AA to it is just plain silly.

It fits perfectly though. It is from one power source, only one can be used at the same time, and is best thought of as different ways to use the same power.

If the forms all had 0 or negative point totals would you feel differently?

[ericbsmith]

Originally Posted by blacksmith

It fits perfectly though. It is from one power source, only one can be used at the same time, and is best thought of as different ways to use the same power.

If the forms all had 0 or negative point totals would you feel differently?

No. Alternate Form is, by definition, a grouping of alternate forms which you cannot use at the same time. That's built into the base ability itself. You cannot stack Alternate Abilities onto it to get a point break.

[vicky_molokh]

While mutually AAing AFs indeed looks questionable, I wonder if there is anything wrong with making AF an AA of Morph, or making Morph the AA of AF. I suppose it's okay, but I'm not sure enough without Kromm's backing.

[blacksmith]

Originally Posted by ericbsmith

No. Alternate Form is, by definition, a grouping of alternate forms which you cannot use at the same time. That's built into the base ability itself. You cannot stack Alternate Abilities onto it to get a point break.

That all depends. A lot of alternate form is like attack, the ability to be something else is valuable, but is the ability to be multiple other things not similar to having multiple attacks? You loose power off the main one to get additional weak abilities.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by blacksmith

That all depends. A lot of alternate form is like attack, the ability to be something else is valuable, but is the ability to be multiple other things not similar to having multiple attacks? You loose power off the main one to get additional weak abilities.

But that's already covered, because every alternate form except the strongest costs only 15 points. Making other alternate forms alternate abilities would seem to be a null modifier. The only remaining aspects of the modifier is the linked disabling and the ready maneuver to switch between modes...

[blacksmith]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

But that's already covered, because every alternate form except the strongest costs only 15 points. Making other alternate forms alternate abilities would seem to be a null modifier. The only remaining aspects of the modifier is the linked disabling and the ready maneuver to switch between modes...

There is no reduction in cost then. Remember that the first one need not cost anything more than 15 points as well. As long as your base form costs more than the other forms.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by blacksmith

There is no reduction in cost then. Remember that the first one need not cost anything more than 15 points as well. As long as your base form costs more than the other forms.

This is true, but I think it's covered by the fact that in that case you don't have any alternate forms that you're likely to be making extensive continuous use of. Since none of them are really superior to your base form, each is presumably good for some special purpose but not likely to supplant your base as your preferred shape.

I can see someone (human) saying 'It would be cooler to be able to turn into a bear if I couldn't also turn into a dragon'. Not so easy to see 'It would be cooler to turn into a squirrel if I couldn't also turn into a trout.'

[blacksmith]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

This is true, but I think it's covered by the fact that in that case you don't have any alternate forms that you're likely to be making extensive continuous use of.

Not at all. If you have a high point racial template already, you can turn into other powerful beings.

Take the OP. If you were an elemental being who can take the form of any element? They are all 15 point advantages as they all are roughly equally powerful.

Since none of them are really superior to your base form, each is presumably good for some special purpose but not likely to supplant your base as your preferred shape.

As is the case in any instance of multiple alternate forms.

I can see someone (human) saying 'It would be cooler to be able to turn into a bear if I couldn't also turn into a dragon'. Not so easy to see 'It would be cooler to turn into a squirrel if I couldn't also turn into a trout.'

Look at it the right way, hawk, dog, bat and so on for different senses and abilities.

They are all useful but not being able to turn into all each of them after the first is likely less and less useful.

[Ulzgoroth]

If your base form isn't your strongest form, you've got a strongest form that you pay a bunch for, and other forms that you pay less for because they're cheaper alternatives.

If your base form is your strongest form, then every alternate form is a cheaper alternative to that base form. The first one doesn't cost more than the others because you're giving up your natural racial template to use it.