Why Does GURPS Hate Enchanting So Much?

[spacemonkey]

Originally Posted by scc

@Spacemonkey, non-casters weren't allowed to make magic items, which is both pretty reasonable and I'd say normal (GURPS also makes that restriction).

Non-casters could however take ranks in craft skills allowing them to make mundane items

Relevant for a very few levels, and not what we're discussing. Look at the thread title. I was responding to someone who said the xp loss from crafting was a drawback in 3.x, which could only be an issue if the rest of the party of noncrafters became significantly stronger than you and you couldn't catch up or handle your spotlight time.

[spacemonkey]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

No they can't afford to miss a level. missing a level both lowers their caster level, and the DC level of spells, When they are on par their their peers the that make the target numbers just break even. Bissing the level they spells fail either partially or fulling more often than not. cause at least 4 feats simple to get back on par.

and that only 30xp wand also only costs chump change in coin to buy in town by the time you can afford to buy the Craft Wand Feat

Counterintuitive... Caster level is only relevant against sr or with certain variable spell effects, like fireball. Not typically relevant unless you're wasting spell slots, 3.x damage spells were bad choices, and sr was rare on opponents til late game, when you could either catch up or boost caster level (with crafted gear like an orange ioun stone). Spell DC is based on stats. It takes 8 levels of stat gains to gain +1 to DC, vs crafting 1 specific stat item that can grant +2 DC at midlevel, while only leaving you 1 level behind. Partial or full spell failure as a result of saving throws is pretty much unaffected by losing 1 level, and is far more affected by choosing the right spell for each opponent. Fortitude save for casters, will save for tough brutes, etc.

Being able to buy the magic item is only relevant if the DM decides he wants to let you buy it. Standard rules allowed for purchasing magic, but tons of DMs wouldn't allow it. At that point, if they would allow crafting, it became crucial.

[Tomsdad]

To be fair not many games look at the whole context of allowing quicker/cheaper enchantment of powerful magic items, and the ramifications of powerful magic item inflation.

And to be honest abundant magic items for every eventuality was only ever a troupe of fantasy gaming not fantasy as a genre.

While I'm as happy as the next roleplayer to do dungeon bash, lots of specialist magic items was very much a part of the resources management part of the game as large numbers of hit points was.

[Gollum]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

As it is, enchanting is simply not an option for players.

If the wizard specializes himself in enchantment spells, it is not at all impossible.

"Prerequisites: Magery 2 and at least one spell from each of 10 other colleges."

IQ 12 [40]
Magery 2 [25]
10 spells with 1 character point for each [10]
Total [75]

75 points remaining for a 150 point character.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Anthony

D&D 3rd edition (and its relatives) has enchantments that are fast and useful and reasonably priced relative to PC wealth. Most game systems either don't permit enchanting at all, or make it fast enough to be a rational choice for PCs.

When GURPS magic came out if I recall correctly in AD&D and Basic or Expert you had to sacrifice a con point to make a perm item.
Plus a good amount of experiance. It was lowered in later editions but then your comparing apples and oranges.
GURPS Magic is based on 80s concepts.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Gollum

If the wizard specializes himself in enchantment spells, it is not at all impossible.

"Prerequisites: Magery 2 and at least one spell from each of 10 other colleges."

IQ 12 [40]
Magery 2 [25]
10 spells with 1 character point for each [10]
Total [75]

75 points remaining for a 150 point character.

And many of those spells are darn useful or handy prerequsites.
Acrolls are easy to make and you can make some items with Q&D, either for use or sale. I played more then 1 enchanter in first, second, and third edition GURPS.

[DanHoward]

Rolemaster had Runemastery, which enabled one-off spells to be cast cheaply on items. A spellcaster could inscribe a rune with an associated spell on the item. It remained on the item until the spell was cast, upon which time the rune faded and needed to be reapplied before it could be used again.

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by scc

OK, while there have been many threads that talk about the enchanting system as presented, and some that even offer to fix it.

This is different, I'm asking WHY GURPS is set up that way.

I don't accept the premise that "GURPS hates enchanting." For one thing, most systems expect that the creation of magic items is something done by NPCs, rather than PCs. You go to an enchanter, who spends his time enchanting. Then, GURPS tends to follow an economic model. An enchanter generates as much value per hour of labor as most skilled professionals. This also gives us a pricing scheme for our magic items, which is ideal for a D&Dish style game, or most fantasy games.

If you want a game that features enchanters (Cabal, for example), then GURPS offers a variety of options. You can use Enchantment by Age, or Enchantment by Deed. Or you can use the option that lets you (or requires you!) to spend points on your weapons. Or you can use Raw Magic. For my Cabal game, I'm going to allow enchantment with points and Raw Magic, meaning that making a magic item involves running around looking for strange bits and bobs, and then using them and a piece of yourself to more-or-less instantly create the item of your choice. The bits and bobs element allows me a modicum of control, and the points balances it out nicely (players are paying for what they get). For my samurai game, I don't have any PC enchanters, and all the magic swords are either enchanted by age/deed, or crafted by a shrine deep in the mountains of a very heroic clan known for its swordsmanship.

So GURPS has plenty of options for how to treat your enchantments, none of which "hate" enchantment.

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by scc

OK, while there have been many threads that talk about the enchanting system as presented, and some that even offer to fix it.

This is different, I'm asking WHY GURPS is set up that way.

Originally Posted by spacemonkey

Orc has a random rolled item though, a potion of uselessness, a cursed ring, a +1 sword of angel slaying, a druid spell scroll when no drudis in party, etc. The party desperately needs specific wands, stat boosters, armor and weapons with the right effects, and class specific items like mobility boosters for fighters.

Better question: why do some systems or GMs hate players so much that PCs can only compete with weapon bonuses? Why are some PCs so bad that they can only handle the adventure by waiting until the challenge is stated and then boosting their characters accordingly?

Just wondering if this is a matter of approaching the issue from the wrong angle; instead of being upset that the party can't get the items needed to boost characters... maybe the GM and/or PCs have some planning issues? I mean if this was a computer game RPG, plenty focus on buffs and debuffs that have to be cast during or shortly before combat.
stead of +1, cast repeatedly on different party members, etc.).

Originally Posted by scc

The actual problem doesn't tend to be the cost, but rather the TIME it takes to make something

Its me, so I don't know much of 4e, but did it change so that the energy cost no longer determines the time? Excluding spells that do have a flat out time requirement, of course. Otherwise using 3e rules, cutting the cost should reduce time to make, sometimes dramatically.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Otaku

Its me, so I don't know much of 4e, but did it change so that the energy cost no longer determines the time?

The standard mechanic did not change - one hour per hundred points of energy for Quick And Dirty enchanting, or one mage-day per point for Slow And Sure.