Expanding RPM Enchantment

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Langy

Oh, I wouldn't allow anyone to add a trait a level at a time. If they're adding any traits, especially permanently, then they need to pay the cost for the final level. Otherwise, it's spell stacking.

That's one way to do it, I just flat out wouldn't allow it. :-)

[munin]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

• The spell requires a certain amount of time to prepare, whether this is inventing or adapting the process to work on you, gathering materials, etc., it takes time. Figure out the cost of the template you are trying to transform into and use the Improvement Through Study (p. B292) to till you achieve enough character points to buy the template. You may add bonus character points normally to speed up the process.
• The spell's power requirement is massive. Figure out the cost of the template you are trying to transform into and then multiply it by 5. Then use this cost to figure out the energy required for Altered Traits. There is precedent for this in the Fortune elixir (Pyramid 3/43: Thaumatology 3, p. 16). In fact, this is where the idea came from in the first place!

Do these methods still make sense for a 0-to-0 transformation (like DF Halfing to Human)? The first method implies zero time/effort, while the second no longer seems to have anything representing the permanentness of it.

The thing I like about using Alternate Form is that it adds a base cost for simply "you can look different", which is an advantage in addition to the trait changes. That benefit should be reflected in the transformation process and Alternate Form already handles it.

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

You shouldn't add One Use on that, the use ends when the duration does. …

The subject is a little confusing, but that's not my understanding.

The Basic Set and Powers both seem to say that Shapeshifting is switchable ("While it is turned on…", p. B83, and "…switchable abilities … include … Shapeshifting …", p. P154), but the FAQ seems to have overridden that:

"Enhancements and limitations are for the transformation process only, and do not apply once the shapeshifter is in the alternate shape. The transformation process is transient, not ongoing; once you are transformed, your ability is NOT considered in use anymore." (FAQ 3.2.15)

So a "use" applies to the transformation, not the time in another form.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by munin

Do these methods still make sense for a 0-to-0 transformation (like DF Halfing to Human)? The first method implies zero time/effort, while the second no longer seems to have anything representing the permanentness of it.

The thing I like about using Alternate Form is that it adds a base cost for simply "you can look different", which is an advantage in addition to the trait changes. That benefit should be reflected in the transformation process and Alternate Form already handles it.

You'd pay the 15 points for the Alternate Form, and lets say that you treat any template worth 0 points (or less) as at least 5 points. So at least 40 additional energy.

Originally Posted by munin

The subject is a little confusing, but that's not my understanding.

The Basic Set and Powers both seem to say that Shapeshifting is switchable ("While it is turned on…", p. B83, and "…switchable abilities … include … Shapeshifting …", p. P154), but the FAQ seems to have overridden that:

"Enhancements and limitations are for the transformation process only, and do not apply once the shapeshifter is in the alternate shape. The transformation process is transient, not ongoing; once you are transformed, your ability is NOT considered in use anymore." (FAQ 3.2.15)

So a "use" applies to the transformation, not the time in another form.

Right, but you're reducing the cost of a ritual that permanently changes you to less than what it would cost if you temporarily changed! That does not pass muster for me. I said x5 because GURPS tends to treat "permanent" effects as a x5 multiplier. Let's look at a side by side:

Sylph Form (from Thaumatology: Ritual Path Magic, p. 50)
Spell Effects: Greater Transform Body + Greater Transform Matter.
Inherent Modifiers: Altered Trait, Body of Air.
Greater Effects: 2 (¥5).

This spell is usually cast as a charm. When broken, it transforms the subject (but not his clothing or equipment!) into a being of elemental air. This lasts 10 minutes. See Body of Air (p. B262) for details.

Typical Casting: Greater Transform Body (8) + Greater Transform Matter (8) + Lesser Control Magic (5) + Altered Trait, Body of Air (36) + Duration, 10 minutes (1) + Subject Weight, 300 lbs. (3). 305 energy (61×5).


Transform Race: Sylph
Spell Effects: Greater Transform Body + Greater Transform Matter.
Inherent Modifiers: Altered Trait, Body of Air.
Greater Effects: 2 (¥5).

This spell is usually cast as a charm. When broken, it transforms the subject (but not his clothing or equipment!) into a being of elemental air. This lasts 10 minutes. See Body of Air (p. B262) for details.

Typical Casting: Greater Transform Body (8) + Greater Transform Matter (8) + Lesser Control Magic (5) + Altered Trait, Body of Air (One Use, x1/5) (8) + Subject Weight, 300 lbs. (3). 160 energy (32×5).

[munin]

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

… you're reducing the cost of a ritual that permanently changes you to less than what it would cost if you temporarily changed! That does not pass muster for me.

I'm not suggesting a ritual (where duration is something you have to pay for separately from the altered trait), I'm using RPM Slow and Sure Enchanting to acquire a trait permanently (RAW, with gadget modifiers, but here suggested without). I want a racial transformation, so I acquire Alternate Form. Alternate Form has no duration (unless you add something to the assumed racial trait to force a change back, such as Dependency, Original Form), so you could choose to change and then never use the ability again. One Use Ever makes it cost less because then you no longer have the option to use it again to change back and forth.

(maybe require Once On Stays On, +50% as part of the transformation trait? that might make sense)

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

…Altered Trait, Body of Air (36)…
…Altered Trait, Body of Air (One Use, x1/5) (8)…

Well, as a ritual, it would be "Altered Trait, Body of Air (36)" vs. "Altered Trait, Alternate Form (Air Elemental*; One Use Only, ×1/5) (3+36=39)". The first just adds a meta-trait to your character sheet, but you're still a human (who happens to be made of air at the moment). The second is a racial transformation, which includes a base cost to reflect that you look different ("Oh, sorry, I was looking for a human but you're clearly an air elemental.").

But, RAW, you can't effect permanent transformations or effects with rituals and I wasn't looking to get around that other than with the published method of rpm slow and sure enchanting (which I like, because it really requires no new mechanics).



* defined here as a racial template consisting only of the Body of Air meta-trait.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by munin

I'm not suggesting a ritual (where duration is something you have to pay for separately from the altered trait), I'm using RPM Slow and Sure Enchanting to acquire a trait permanently (RAW, with gadget modifiers, but here suggested without). I want a racial transformation, so I acquire Alternate Form. Alternate Form has no duration (unless you add something to the assumed racial trait to force a change back, such as Dependency, Original Form), so you could choose to change and then never use the ability again. One Use Ever makes it cost less because then you no longer have the option to use it again to change back and forth.

(maybe require Once On Stays On, +50% as part of the transformation trait? that might make sense)

Let me put this another way, if you created a spell to let you live forever (i.e., Altered Traits, Unaging) would you put One Use Only on that? It's effectively a physical transformation just like gaining a new racial template. Cheapening the cost of the ritual because you're only going to use it once is not logical to me. If that were the case then everyone would turn themselves into the most powerful race in the setting given enough time. I'm not against Slow and Sure Enchantment, that's the way to do it, but the triggering ritual shouldn't be cheaper than a ritual to temporarily become that thing.

As for Once On, Stays On, maybe. I think that the x5 multiplier should cover that though.

Originally Posted by munin

Well, as a ritual, it would be "Altered Trait, Body of Air (36)" vs. "Altered Trait, Alternate Form (Air Elemental*; One Use Only, ×1/5) (3+36=39)". The first just adds a meta-trait to your character sheet, but you're still a human (who happens to be made of air at the moment). The second is a racial transformation, which includes a base cost to reflect that you look different ("Oh, sorry, I was looking for a human but you're clearly an air elemental.").

It would be the same as adding Alternate Form, Elf or whatever, that's just semantics. The point I was trying to make is that your way makes it cheaper to permanently turn into something (given enough character points) than it is to turn into temporarily via a spell. Again, that does not make sense to me.

Originally Posted by munin

But, RAW, you can't effect permanent transformations or effects with rituals and I wasn't looking to get around that other than with the published method of rpm slow and sure enchanting (which I like, because it really requires no new mechanics).

No, not yet.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Let me follow-up real quick with the following: If this is how you want it to work in your campaign, munin, then that's how it works! I'm just trying to offer advice on how I'd handle it and how closely a given method might cleave to the rules. That's all.

[munin]

Unaging is Always On, so defining uses for it would make it Switchable, so a use would be 1 minute.

Alternate Form is (I'm pretty sure the FAQ says) a Transient advantage -- it affects a permanent change in the universe (swapping your racial template) and then it's off, like Innate Attack.

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

… but the triggering ritual shouldn't be cheaper than a ritual to temporarily become that thing. …

I'm not sure what you're talking about here. There is no ritual for RPM enchantment (Slow and Sure Enchanting, T:RPM, pp. 34-35). RPM enchantments use actual traits, not Altered Trait spell modifiers. You roll against Path of Magic every 25 days of work to gather "enchanting" character points, then when you have enough points you buy the trait and put it on your character sheet, like you would purchase any normal trait with normal character points. That's it -- no greater or lesser effects, no spell modifiers, just buy the trait. In this case, a one-use ability that affects a permanent change and then it's done.

Maybe I shouldn't have tried to "correct" your ritual, since that isn't actually what I was suggesting the one-use trait be used for.

[Langy]

I'm honestly unsure why you'd need Alternate Form at all in the lens, unless you were significantly altering your appearance (to the point where nobody would be able to recognize you). Just buy the new racial template and be done.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by munin

Unaging is Always On, so defining uses for it would make it Switchable, so a use would be 1 minute.

Alternate Form is (I'm pretty sure the FAQ says) a Transient advantage -- it affects a permanent change in the universe (swapping your racial template) and then it's off, like Innate Attack.


I'm not sure what you're talking about here. There is no ritual for RPM enchantment (Slow and Sure Enchanting, T:RPM, pp. 34-35). RPM enchantments use actual traits, not Altered Trait spell modifiers. You roll against Path of Magic every 25 days of work to gather "enchanting" character points, then when you have enough points you buy the trait and put it on your character sheet, like you would purchase any normal trait with normal character points. That's it -- no greater or lesser effects, no spell modifiers, just buy the trait. In this case, a one-use ability that affects a permanent change and then it's done.

Maybe I shouldn't have tried to "correct" your ritual, since that isn't actually what I was suggesting the one-use trait be used for.

Maybe we've cross wires here. I went back and reread your post and if I've read it right you're saying that you want to use Slow and Sure enchantment to create enough points to change your racial template. I don't know if by itself that's a good idea - that's why I suggested a "trigger" ritual. Otherwise, by itself why not just buy any trait?

Originally Posted by Langy

I'm honestly unsure why you'd need Alternate Form at all in the lens, unless you were significantly altering your appearance (to the point where nobody would be able to recognize you). Just buy the new racial template and be done.

That's why I suggested a ritual to enable the spending of those points.

[munin]

Originally Posted by Langy

… Just buy the new racial template and be done.

Again, 0-point templates, negative-point templates? Does selling your old template increase the effort required, or reduce the effort to buy the new one?

These are the kinds of questions that Alternate Form has already solved.

RPM enchantment is trait-based, and we already have a history of answers for questions like these. We don't have to make up new rules like 5×cost, 5-point minimum, etc., when we can just use RAW mechanics (I'm not saying they're unbalanced, I don't know, they're just unneeded). You buy a trait and then you use it.

Originally Posted by Ghostdancer

… Otherwise, by itself why not just buy any trait? …

RPM enchantment already allows you to buy any trait the GM allows, just with gadget modifiers.