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Old 11-05-2018, 06:46 PM   #11
jason taylor
 
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Default Re: Halloween and Other disgraceful Holidays; Memetic Seasonal Warfare.

While we're on that, what about Guy Fawkes Day?
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Old 11-06-2018, 05:32 AM   #12
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Default Re: Halloween and Other disgraceful Holidays; Memetic Seasonal Warfare.

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While we're on that, what about Guy Fawkes Day?
Seems to be more often referred to as "Bonfire Night" these days, and isn't a public holiday; the point is purely the fireworks in the evening. And the appeal of fireworks may take some killing -- I guess that augmented reality apps to create your own super-display at whim could be an issue, but you'd need full immersive five-senses VR to get the full experience.
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Old 11-06-2018, 07:27 AM   #13
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Default Re: Halloween and Other disgraceful Holidays; Memetic Seasonal Warfare.

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Seems to be more often referred to as "Bonfire Night" these days, and isn't a public holiday; the point is purely the fireworks in the evening. And the appeal of fireworks may take some killing -- I guess that augmented reality apps to create your own super-display at whim could be an issue, but you'd need full immersive five-senses VR to get the full experience.
As far as political context goes, "there was a man who tried to blow up Parliament" seems to be about usual the level of sophistication. It's the night when fireworks happen, more than at the New Year. That's it.
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Old 11-06-2018, 08:02 AM   #14
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Default Re: Halloween and Other disgraceful Holidays; Memetic Seasonal Warfare.

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And the appeal of fireworks may take some killing
Australia used to have Fireworks Night (aka Cracker Night) on the Queen's Birthday holiday (2nd Monday in June, fyi) until state governments banned fireworks sales. That killed the holiday pretty quickly.
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Old 11-06-2018, 09:09 AM   #15
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Default Re: Halloween and Other disgraceful Holidays; Memetic Seasonal Warfare.

The only logical foes of Guy Fawks Day are those who either oppose English or British national identities. Frankly, somebody else's national holidays are mainly a curiosity to me and I assume most people. Unless there is an anti-British passion why attack the 5th of November?

Maybe "V for Vendetta" freaks out some dictator or other.
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Old 11-06-2018, 11:10 AM   #16
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Default Re: Halloween and Other disgraceful Holidays; Memetic Seasonal Warfare.

I’ve never heard of any objection to Bonfire Night apart from safety and animal welfare concerns related to fireworks (which have led to a bit of a switch from people letting off fireworks in their gardens to public displays). Putting a “Guy” (a crude effigy of Guy Fawkes) on the bonfire seems to be less common; I guess that burning humanoid figures isn’t so much to modern tastes. But some places still even burn contemporary unpopular people in effigy, just to be a bit edgy.

I guess if we ever had a resurgence of anti-Catholic prejudice and then a pushback, someone on one side or the other might remember what the original story was about, but as Roger says, these days, you have to be a bit of a history geek to know it. And trying to deprive people of a firework display and an excuse to eat baked potatoes isn’t a memetic project I’d want to tackle.
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Old 11-06-2018, 03:42 PM   #17
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Default Re: Halloween and Other disgraceful Holidays; Memetic Seasonal Warfare.

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Ive never heard of any objection to Bonfire Night apart from safety and animal welfare concerns related to fireworks (which have led to a bit of a switch from people letting off fireworks in their gardens to public displays). Putting a Guy (a crude effigy of Guy Fawkes) on the bonfire seems to be less common; I guess that burning humanoid figures isnt so much to modern tastes. But some places still even burn contemporary unpopular people in effigy, just to be a bit edgy.

I guess if we ever had a resurgence of anti-Catholic prejudice and then a pushback, someone on one side or the other might remember what the original story was about, but as Roger says, these days, you have to be a bit of a history geek to know it. And trying to deprive people of a firework display and an excuse to eat baked potatoes isnt a memetic project Id want to tackle.
Still Transhuman Space is a world of extremists and eccentric ones too. So sane objects needn't be considered.
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Old 11-06-2018, 03:48 PM   #18
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Default Re: Halloween and Other disgraceful Holidays; Memetic Seasonal Warfare.

The main battleground is likely to be what traditions are emphasized, not attempts to destroy the holiday. Christmas is a good example of this. It has many different traditions that can be emphasized to reflect different values. Caroling reflects one set of sensibilities, nativity sets another, and Santa Claus can take Christmas into an entirely different direction from the other two. Songs are written that emphasize "Peace on Earth" to decry war and oppression. Cries are made about "Don't forget those not of the dominant faith!". And there is an entire segment of Christmas traditions dedicated to romance.



Some people are trying to spread their ideology, some people are trying to have fun, and some people are trying to make money.



Every holiday is like this, though Christmas shows it more visibly because its a larger holiday. Taking own an entire holiday is hard: they're usually not singular memes, but small memplexes. A more effective tactic is to target specific traditions and practices. eventually, you may whittle away a holiday until it can be squelched, but its a large and long-term project.
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Old 11-08-2018, 05:39 AM   #19
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Default Re: Halloween and Other disgraceful Holidays; Memetic Seasonal Warfare.

I knew someone who wouldn't celebrate Guy Fawkes as he went to Guy Fawke's old school, none of the school did celebrate it.
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Old 11-12-2018, 10:01 PM   #20
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Default Re: Halloween and Other disgraceful Holidays; Memetic Seasonal Warfare.

I read somewhere that "A Visit from St. Nicholas" aka "'Twas the Night Before Christmas" by Clement Clarke Moore was part of a early 1800s memetic campaign by various authors and public figures to change Christmas from a drunken party to a family oriented holiday.
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