Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > The Fantasy Trip

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-02-2018, 03:24 AM   #21
Rick_Smith
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
Default Re: How do you all handle mounted combat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarg View Post
Advanced Melee page 30 already has that rule.

But it seems to me that not being Engaged is of no help at all for moving through a line of standing foes.

However by virtue of being a 2-hex creature, a horse at any speed (even engaged and shifting) could use a "push" during movement on any 1-hex figure who has an open hex to be pushed into (so a body of foes filled 2-hexes deep would prevent it ... somehow, not sure why except it's the rule), which gives a chance for the foe to fall down, though the horse still stops after one hex.
Hi Skarg,
I was unclear in my rule above. The horse when moving fast can knock someone back and keep going. Sorry!

Warm regards, Rick.
Rick_Smith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2018, 10:47 AM   #22
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: How do you all handle mounted combat?

Yes, I was talking about the existing rules for Guy's benefit, since his response and some replies to it seemed to be thinking that the issue was about engagement, and could be solved by adjustment to effective counter-size of a moving horse.

Really if you want a chance for a horse to be able to move through enemies (not around them, and not just crunching forward one hex per turn), then yeah you'd want an added rule that lets you do that, as you suggest. In GURPS you can even attempt that at any size, as there are rules for trying to evade or slam your way through through a standing foe's hex that take into account ST and DX. Your version seems ok though I think you'd want any such rule to allow the possibility of all combinations of outcomes, which I'm not clear yours does, i.e.:

* The horse might balk and stop, and/or panic.

* The standing figure might (probably does in most cases - they might need to choose to attack or get out of the way) get to attack the horse or rider, in addition to any other results.

* The standing figure might get out of the way, either falling or not falling, being hurt or not being hurt in the process.

* The standing figure might get rammed and/or trampled by the horse in the process.

* The horse might get stopped, stumble, or be hurt in the process of hitting whatever it rams into.

* The horse might keep going without being slowed down at all.
Skarg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2018, 04:17 PM   #23
SwordlordRoy
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Re: How do you all handle mounted combat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Kane View Post
This is *beautifully* stated. When I think about all the things which Silver, Tornado, and Trigger did to aid The Lone Ranger, Zorro, and Roy Rodgers in their adventures - pulling them from quicksand, biting through ropes to free their captured masters, going for help while the master is trapped in a cave-in, kicking in locked doors, etc. *that* is exactly the type of play we missed out on doing with horses (as a trained follower of the PC - or The Warrior's Familiar, as Lars put it) which could have provided so much additional story-telling fun and color - for those who like their TFT action and adventure on the *pulpy* side.

JK

PS - And let us not forget Edgar Rice Burroughs' version of the same dynamic, with Tarzan and his favorite "horse" and familiar, Tantor, the elephant!
Not to mention Gandalf and Shadowfax as well as Geralt of Rivia and Roach (who seemed to have a penchant for appearing where horses shouldn't be able to go).
SwordlordRoy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-02-2018, 07:02 PM   #24
David Bofinger
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Sydney, Australia
Default Re: How do you all handle mounted combat?

Horses will not charge through solid barriers. Decent infantry from the dawn of organised warfare to mid-C19 pack together tight enough to look like a solid hedge, even without shields. But if there's a gap in the wall every horse in the charge will think, "Oh, it's OK, I'll go through there," and by the time they realise there are a thousand horses with the same idea and they aren't going to all fit into that one little gap it's too late to stop and the horses end up crashing into the line anyway. So discipline is even more essential for infantry versus cavalry than for infantry versus infantry.

How this is all relevant to the small unit tactics of TFT I'm not sure but letting horses break up ordered infantry is making cavalry unreasonably strong. And TFT is supposed to be a game of infantry, mostly, so that would be a mistake.

Cavalry also pack at maximum density. The French said if you threw a plum at a charge one of the lances should skewer it. So movies where an agile warrior jumps around between the charging horses and grabs one from the side really don't work.

On the other hand cavalry on cavalry charges can be even stupider than cavalry on infantry. Nobody wants to turn aside and get stabbed in the flank. Assuming nobody wins the game of chicken, the horses see a mass of other horses coming and slow down. The horses end up face to face, slow down and stop, and if the riders have swords they can hardly reach each other.

Anyway, this only applies to large formations and TFT isn't about large formations.
David Bofinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2018, 08:19 AM   #25
zot
 
Join Date: May 2018
Default Re: How do you all handle mounted combat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JLV View Post
PS -- And Tarzan COULD have used a howdah! (Thanks, Jim, for letting me get that one in -- I was feeling left out of the "howdah" thing...) ;-)
Hmm, I guess I really need to try typing "howdah" to see what this thing is all about.

Hodwah.

Hmm...

Howdah howdah howdah.

Hey!

Howdah howdah howdah howdah howdah

Wheee!!!
zot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2018, 02:07 PM   #26
Nils_Lindeberg
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Handling the mounted charge

If a horse(normally a 2-hex creature) moves more than 8 hexes in a single turn and then engages a single man on foot, treat the horse as though it were a 3-hex creature.

A rule change to the following:
If a horse(normally a 2-hex creature) moves more than 8 hexes in a single turn, last turn or this turn, treat the horse as though it were a 3-hex creature.



If a mounted line hits a line of footmen, every horse would be in 2 enemies front hexes on average. If they moved 8 hexes and engaged they would most often come to a "full stop", which is a must if they are to exchange blows anyways. If every other footman in the first line went down (knock down will be common) from the riders' and the mounts' attacks, the mounted men would be able to charge on if they continued to move 8 hexes or more.

But if there were a second line or too many enemies still standing they could push forward on top of an enemy with a shift (still counting as 3-hex because of speed from last turn), get trample for free and start to fight to push through and maybe next turn break thru.

If they still didn't get free of pesky footmen, on the third turn they would stop counting as 3-hex creatures and be stuck in the melee.

I wouldn't really see even the second version as a broken charge, more like a game mechanic to turn time into manageable chunks. And in reality if it only took 5 seconds extra for a charge to break through a line, it would be considered a total over run. I expect impaled horses, panicked horses, knights getting thrown off, footmen half trampled to death and footmen falling with broken spears in them in a big giant mess. And then the knights coming out through the other side pursuing the surviving footmen fleeing every which way.
Nils_Lindeberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2018, 02:32 PM   #27
JLV
 
JLV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Far northern California
Default Re: How do you all handle mounted combat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zot View Post
Hmm, I guess I really need to try typing "howdah" to see what this thing is all about.

Hodwah.

Hmm...

Howdah howdah howdah.

Hey!

Howdah howdah howdah howdah howdah

Wheee!!!
<In old west accent> "Well, Howdah right back at ya, pardner!" ;-)
JLV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2018, 03:39 PM   #28
CardDiceian
 
CardDiceian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Berkshire - UK
Default Re: How do you all handle mounted combat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluekitsune13 View Post
The rules for mounted combat in TFT are very detailed, with a rider able to have a different facing than the mount, as well as being able to get dismounted. My problem is I play with miniatures, and they are all one piece and glued. Plus most mounted models don't have a dismounted version of them either. This would make it hard to act out the rules as written.
The original question was more about using miniatures and coping with the facing of the rider compared to the horse - and has drifted into general mounted combat rules.

I just had an idea for your figures issue that might work.

How about drilling a few holes in the base, which line up with the different facings and positions possible on both hexes of your mount - Then mark the facing of your rider with a small peg or map pin (or similar) - It wouldn't detract from the look of the model much, and would move along with the figure, rather than being a separate marker.

I may try to do this with one of my mounted figures over the weekend and photograph it to see if its viable.

Like others - I'm guilty of using horses only as a means of getting from one place to another.
CardDiceian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2018, 10:43 AM   #29
CardDiceian
 
CardDiceian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Berkshire - UK
Default Re: How do you all handle mounted combat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluekitsune13 View Post
The rules for mounted combat in TFT are very detailed, with a rider able to have a different facing than the mount, as well as being able to get dismounted. My problem is I play with miniatures, and they are all one piece and glued.
If you can access this image on TWITTER - it may resolve this issue.

https://twitter.com/Caesar_Models/st...68292441628673

I have drilled 9 holes in the base to align with the different possible facings on each of the 2 riding hexes. - Then just place a peg in the hole to show where the rider is sat and which way he is facing.
CardDiceian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2018, 10:02 AM   #30
platimus
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: behind you
Default Re: How do you all handle mounted combat?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluekitsune13 View Post
The rules for mounted combat in TFT are very detailed, with a rider able to have a different facing than the mount, as well as being able to get dismounted. My problem is I play with miniatures, and they are all one piece and glued. Plus most mounted models don't have a dismounted version of them either. This would make it hard to act out the rules as written.

I was wondering if any of you have come up with some alternate rules for dealing with mounted figures. An easy solution might be to just treat them as a whole fighter, similar to a large create like a Centaur or Troll. It would basically be all or nothing with them. That's kind of the way I'm leaning right now.
Here's an idea: Use flat, multi-hex counters for mounts. Set the miniature for the rider on top of it. If he dismounts, replace the flat counter with a miniature for the beastie (if you have one). The flat counter doesn't have to be paper/thin either. You could...
- paste some nice images of a horse onto a wooden block
- get a horse mini encased in a clear substance. the result is a clear block with a horse in it. trophy shops will do this sort of thing. not sure how to DIY

Also, put a chess Knight in the hex not occupied by the rider to denote the figure is mounted and show the facing of the horse. Will look a bit strange though when the rider is in-front of the "head" and the "head" is facing him :P

EDIT2
If you are comfortable with modding your mounted figures, you could cut the heads off the riders. Drill tiny holes in the necks. Insert short pins/pegs and reattach the heads. Now they can swivel to show facing. Just ignore the stuff in the rules about being able to shift between the two hexes of a horse and know that you can attack into those adjacent hexes on the side of the horse you are facing.

Last edited by platimus; 10-10-2018 at 08:14 PM.
platimus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.