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Old 05-29-2018, 03:48 PM   #31
tbeard1999
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tyler, Texas
Default Ty's Healing Spells Designer's Notes

DESIGNER'S NOTES
For Ty's Healing Spells

For me, the main purpose of healing spells is to enable classic dungeon crawls and to make characters more able to survive multiple combats. However, to preserve the flow and fast pace of the TFT combat system, they really shouldn't have that much effect on individual combats.

And Steve’s spell pretty much fails to do that. It isn’t a bad spell, necessarily. But it’s not particularly useful for dungeon crawls either - you have to burn out a high IQ Wizard for a modest benefit. Much better to spend (say) 6 ST on a missile spell against the enemy than to recover 2 ST points about 99% of the time, I suspect.

So these rules allow healing to take place between combats, and, in a pinch, during combat (if the wizard can successfully cast the spell). And they aren't overly cost-prohibitive for wizards.

My healing spells only heal physical damage. The reason for not healing ST lost solely from fatigue is to keep wizards from creating a perpetual motion ST generator. (I.e., it costs 1 ST to heal 2 points of ST, so a Wizard could create free ST if you allowed the spell to restore ST lost due to fatigue). I'd modify the Aid spell so that it can permanently restore ST lost from fatigue, if you want that ability.

The ST cost versus the amount of healing can be tweaked. But be careful; the Critical Healing spell (or the Master Physicker spell) acts as a cap on the maximum amount of damage that can be healed between combats. I also considered raising the cost of the Master Physicker spell to 2 ST.

Healing scroll costs were adjusted to make them cost-effective compared to healing potions. Healing items cost about 40% of their list price, which is similar to other magic items in AW.

If you reduce the cost of healing potions in your campaigns, you'll want to adjust the cost of scrolls and magic items accordingly. Reduce the cost of scrolls by the same percentage as you reduced the healing spells. For magic items, total the cost of healing potions before and after the price reduction. Reduce the cost of the item by 2.5 times the total price reduction.

For instance, assume you reduce the cost of healing potions to $75 each. Healing scrolls will be reduced by 50% in cost. A Minor Healing item will be reduced by $375 (i.e., 2.5 times the $150 reduction in cost for the two healing potions required for the item); a Major Healing item will be reduced by $750 and a Critical Healing item will be reduced in price by $1125.

For those who think that the cinematic spells are too powerful, I offer the non-cinematic spells, which have the virtue of following existing rules for physickers and master physickers.


Jim Kane are you not entertained? :D

Last edited by tbeard1999; 05-30-2018 at 03:09 AM.
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Old 05-29-2018, 05:31 PM   #32
BrotherBill
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Default Re: HEAL spell?

I have played a heal spell which converts 1 point of wounding to 1 point of exhaustion for each 2 ST spent in the spell's casting, rather than fully restoring a point. The spell does not cure exhaustion. In that world wounds plus exhaustion equal to your ST caused total incapacitation, rather than death, which required wounding equal to a figure's ST. It kept wizards from dying of paper cuts, but still vulnerable to finishing blows.
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Old 05-29-2018, 05:55 PM   #33
Jim Kane
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Join Date: Mar 2018
Default Re: HEAL spell?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shostak View Post
ALTERNATE HEALING SPELLS

Healing (S) (IQ 14)
Heals up to 2 hits AND 4 fatigue on any physical being after any combat, disease, or accident. Will not cure a disease or neutralize a poison, but will heal damage caused by them. Healing spells are NOT cumulative; Healing can only be used once per set of related wounds or damage. Healing DOES stack with Physicker and Master Physicker. This spell takes 5 minutes to cast, with the wizard concentrating the entire time, and it requires the caster to touch the subject either directly or with a wizard’s staff.
Cost: 4 to heal 1 hit and 2 fatigue, 8 to heal 2 hits and 4 fatigue.

Greater Healing (S) (IQ 16)
As per Healing, but heals 3 damage AND 6 fatigue. This spell does not stack with Healing; if cast on wounds already treated with Healing, this spell only heals one extra point. Characters who know this spell also know Healing at no extra cost.
Cost: 10
LARS, BROTHER BILL Would either of you mind re-stating your idea on SJ's Healing Spell from the OP in finished "Spell Rule Form" - being the same format above which SHOSTAK, KIRK, and I have done, so we have additionally have one from each of you, "for the record", for purposes of consistency, exactness of definition and ease of reference for everyone?

That would be great if you would.

Thanks.

JK

Last edited by Jim Kane; 05-29-2018 at 06:45 PM. Reason: Typo
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Old 05-29-2018, 06:36 PM   #34
Jim Kane
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Join Date: Mar 2018
Default Re: HEAL spell?

Quote:
Originally Posted by A Ladder View Post
*Never played TFT, but am really interested in this since I heard about it. So take my ideas as something probably dismiss-able*
Welcome to the party A LADDER, and please, pull up a chair - pardon the pun - without years of hard-boiled TFT notions ingrained in your mind, YOUR ideas may turn-out to be the most innovative of all. We are listening...

JK
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Old 05-29-2018, 06:37 PM   #35
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: HEAL spell?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrotherBill View Post
I have played a heal spell which converts 1 point of wounding to 1 point of exhaustion for each 2 ST spent in the spell's casting, rather than fully restoring a point. The spell does not cure exhaustion. In that world wounds plus exhaustion equal to your ST caused total incapacitation, rather than death, which required wounding equal to a figure's ST. It kept wizards from dying of paper cuts, but still vulnerable to finishing blows.
I like that!
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Old 05-29-2018, 09:12 PM   #36
Rick_Smith
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Coquitlam B.C.
Default Re: HEAL spell? --> spells that cost damage not fST.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Kane View Post
Another more direct limiter against abuse(s) would be to charge the spell cost to the caster directly AS DAMAGE AND FATIGUE, and move it from the Thrown Spell classification, to the Special Spell classification - and attack the problem from the other direction. ...
Hi all, Jim.
In current TFT, all spells costs fatigue ST (fST) except the Death Spell which costs the wizard damage. I like the idea of a few more very powerful spells also costing the wizard damage.

Doing so gives more variety to the spell the list, and allows the designer to make some very powerful spells at lower IQ, and retain balance.

Warm regards, Rick.
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Old 05-29-2018, 11:32 PM   #37
larsdangly
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Default Re: HEAL spell?

FWIW, I just checked my notes from my 'maximal' house ruled version of TFT (with all new talents, spells, jobs, etc. folded into the batter) and it included one proper 'heal' spell. It is IQ 14 and requires 5 pts of ST per point of damage healed. My notes didn't specify it having a limit.

I also have a couple of miraculous healing prayers priests can attempt, but they have different mechanics and trade offs from magic spells so it isn't easy to explain how they work without a long and pointless aside. The short version is that it isn't substantially better than just having a wizard who can cast the spell.

The funny thing is, I don't recall anyone in my group ever using healing much in play. Perhaps because is a big enough investment that you are giving up something significant when you cast a large heal spell. I'm sure there are players out there who had wizards with hundreds of points of ST batteries, but that never came up in a campaign I ran, so magicians tended to harbor their ST expenditures pretty strictly.
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Old 05-30-2018, 12:45 AM   #38
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: HEAL spell? --> spells that cost damage not fST.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
Hi all, Jim.
In current TFT, all spells costs fatigue ST (fST) except the Death Spell which costs the wizard damage. I like the idea of a few more very powerful spells also costing the wizard damage.

Doing so gives more variety to the spell the list, and allows the designer to make some very powerful spells at lower IQ, and retain balance.
I agree, especially if there is no healing spell to make that difference go away.

I could post some suggested healing spell versions, but my main suggestion is no healing spells, and my secondary suggestions are (IIRC from looking at them before when Rick shared them on the TFT email list a year or more ago) probably rather like Rick's healing spells - i.e. they let you heal while still being active, and/or increase the healing rate which is still in terms of days rather than turns, but don't just make your wounds instantly vanish.

Some other random ideas:

Healing spells could function like Aid spells that last until the wound actually heals... or until dispelled... (e.g. Remove Thrown Spell, Dispel Magic). I.e. they don't make wounds magically vanish - they just keep you alive until they do heal... unless something breaks the spell.

Healing spells could be risky, e.g.:

Healing spell failure results:
15 - automatic failure
16 - failure and wound is increased by 1d - 1
17 - failure and wound is increased by 2d - 2
18 - failure and wound is increased by 3d - 3

A possible detail, designed to also possibly soak up Wishes: The resulting damage takes about ten seconds (2 turns) to manifest. There is enough time for someone in possession of a magic Wish to realize what is happening and use the Wish to roll minimum (i.e. zero) damage. Someone could also roll for damage and if they dislike the result, to use the Wish to re-roll the result.
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Old 05-30-2018, 01:01 AM   #39
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: HEAL spell?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeard1999 View Post
...
For me, the main purpose of healing spells is to enable classic dungeon crawls and to make characters more able to survive multiple combats. However, to preserve the flow and fast pace of the TFT combat system, they really shouldn't have that much effect on individual combats.

And Steve’s spell pretty much fails to do that. It isn’t a bad spell, necessarily. But it’s not particularly useful for dungeon crawls either - you have to burn out a high IQ Wizard for a modest benefit. Much better to spend (say) 4 ST on a missile spell against the enemy 99% of the time, I suspect.
In situations other than non-small-PC-only-party-D&D-dungeon-quest-imitating, it's not just burning the ST of a high-IQ wizard. With an unlimited healing spell, it becomes a strong tactic to have a squad of as many apprentices with Aid as possible. (Even slaves who aren't wizards but have IQ 9 and you (or your wicked NPC adversaries) have learn the Aid spell). Not only do they add their ST to the amount you can cast healing spells with, each of them recovers 1 fST per fifteen minutes, so they multiply the potential healing over time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
I'm sure there are players out there who had wizards with hundreds of points of ST batteries, but that never came up in a campaign I ran, so magicians tended to harbor their ST expenditures pretty strictly.
ST batteries are not needed. Did they have wagons and hirelings? If you've got a wagon, you can have one IQ 14 healer wizard and an Aid-casting assistant or two resting off spell fatigue on the wagon while the party travels. (Or if no wagon, they can do it while the party rests.) That's 4 fatigue per hour, times 16 waking hours per day is 64 fST (plus whatever their actual ST is) per IQ 9 apprentice.

Even without any apprentices, the healing wizard himself rests up that much himself, so at SJ's original 1/4 rate, that's potentially 16 or more points of healing per day per wizard or Aid caster.

Clever heroes might want to consider learning the Aid spell themselves, and using it to Aid the healer while they're injured. IQ 9 and 3 points of memory is a fantastic deal to increase your healing rate from 1 per 2 days to more like 32 per 2 days (not to mention the instant results, and no real need to actually ever spend any time in bed). It's so powerful that people would seem to be fools not to do that.



Oh, and even Drain ST on one person yields something like 7 times the usual healing rate. And since all Drain ST needs is a willing subject, if you've got a bunch of willing civilians or something, you could use them to get a bunch of healing done. It could be a regular military strategy: Occupy a village and make them submit to Drain ST so you can heal your entire company's wounds in an hour or so using even just one caster with a healing spell and (the same, or another with Aid and) Drain ST.

Last edited by Skarg; 05-30-2018 at 01:08 AM.
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Old 05-30-2018, 01:57 AM   #40
Jim Kane
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Join Date: Mar 2018
Default Re: HEAL spell? --> spells that cost damage not fST.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick_Smith View Post
Hi all, Jim.
In current TFT, all spells costs fatigue ST (fST) except the Death Spell which costs the wizard damage. I like the idea of a few more very powerful spells also costing the wizard damage.

Doing so gives more variety to the spell the list, and allows the designer to make some very powerful spells at lower IQ, and retain balance.

Warm regards, Rick.
Hi Rick, thanks I do too; but moreover, would rather like to see your take on SJ's Heal Spell - possible you could share that?

Thanks.

JK
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