Horror: fear of falling

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Can you imagine what a falling monster would look like?

Off the top of my head, a big frickin' bird that picks you up and drops you from a horrifying height or horrible tunneling-earth-eating monsters that whisk the ground out from underneath you JUST WHEN YOU THOUGHT IT WAS SAFE.

Ahem.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Bruno

Off the top of my head, a big frickin' bird that picks you up and drops you from a horrifying height or horrible tunneling-earth-eating monsters that whisk the ground out from underneath you JUST WHEN YOU THOUGHT IT WAS SAFE.

Ahem.

Yeah that occurred to me which is why I decided what was missing was an element of disgust.

[aesir23]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

horror requires an element of disgust to it.

I disagree with this. It is possible to have very frightening stories with very frightening monsters and no disgusting elements at all. Most ghost stories fall into this category, for instance.

Where is the element of disgust in "Poltergeist" or Something Wicked This Way Comes?

I think it was Lovecraft in "Supernatural Horror in Literature"* who described the "Horror" vs "Terror" difference, where in Terror scares you by what it doesn't show you. Terror is to be preferred.

Horror, as a genre, has plenty of room for pure terror without disgust.


*It might have been Stephen King's Danse Macbre.

[aesir23]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Yeah that occurred to me which is why I decided what was missing was an element of disgust.

What about a big slimy bird that picks you up and drops you on sharp rocks that force your badly broken vertebrae through your organs?

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by Johan Larson

Now what sort of villain turns somebodies into nobodies, and ordinary folk into contemptible losers?

Conmen, scammers, robbers, thieves, embezzlers, and tax collectors. Identity frauds, too. The evil state. Blackmailers, slanderers, gossips.

There is a trope in which a character suddenly and mysterious loses his social place: the staff at his hotel deny he was ever there, people he had memorable interactions with earlier in the film deny knowing him, his credit and debit cards stop working, his wife disappears, and he is accused of a crime. But works that make much of this are usually (arbitrarily, I think) classified into the thriller genre rather than the horror genre. It does sometimes happen for supernatural reasons, and the effect is certainly horrifying in, say, Neil Gaiman's Neverwhere.

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

No there are plenty of rational fears that can produce horror monsters. But horror requires an element of disgust to it. Falling frightens but it doesn't disgust.

There is a difference between horror and fear, and it's important to the genre, but I'm not sure that "disgust" captures it. Perhaps it has something to do with the particular and the general. A character, even a protagonist, can be afraid and the audience not be horrified in the least. On the other hand, the audience may be horrified when a character is merely disgusted. It has something to do with getting the audience where they live, with compromising or undermining the beliefs that they audience rely on to feel safe. Naturally, the ones that people already feel insecure about are easier to work with.

Perhaps "revulsion" captures the sense better than "disgust".

My mother was afraid of heights. She felt a powerful revulsion from cliff-edges, high bridges and low balustrades, lookouts etc. She also felt revulsion when other people, especially her husband and children, were juxtaposed with something to fall off. And yes, she was powerfully affected by movies that showed a fall, precipices, narrow rope bridge etc. Couldn't watch Vertigo.

One thing that I have encountered in reading my brand-new PDF of Horror is the suggestion that Fearlessness is likely to be an inappropriate Advantage for characters in horror campaigns. I don't think that is right, because the essence of horror is to horrify the audience, not scare the character. A character who goes into or stays in situations that the audience resiles from is good. A Trait that keeps the character going forward when the audience feels strongly that he ought to go back ought to promote horror, I should think. It's like Curiosity. There's a trope in horror movies so well-worn that it is often complained of: the character who goes alone and unarmed to investigate the mysterious noises in the cellar or the attic, even when it is often pretty stupid to do so. Writers and directors keep using that because it works, and it works because the audience know, feel strongly, that the character ought not to be doing what she or he is doing.

I think that Fearlessness is probably a good Trait for player characters in Horror. (1) It keeps the character there when running away would be better. (2) The idea that Fearlessness may increase danger rather than safety might be horrifying to some players. (3) The mechanic "I failed a roll so my character has to act scared" is not itself the stuff of horror (though you can play on the audience's fear of being incapacitated by fear).

[Lord Carnifex]

Originally Posted by aesir23

I think it was Lovecraft in "Supernatural Horror in Literature"*...

*It might have been Stephen King's Danse Macbre.

It was King, who also had a third category: gore.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Brett

Perhaps "revulsion" captures the sense better than "disgust".

I'd say so. I think David's points can be made just as well by simply exchanging revulsion for disgust.

One thing that I have encountered in reading my brand-new PDF of Horror is the suggestion that Fearlessness is likely to be an inappropriate Advantage for characters in horror campaigns.

Ken noted in the Traits section under Fearlessness that its appropriateness depends on the mood and theme the GM is building. For games where the characters and players, or just the characters, are supposed to be experiencing the desired emotion, Fearlessness will often be out of place.

[Rocket Man]

Originally Posted by Brett

It has something to do with getting the audience where they live, with compromising or undermining the beliefs that they audience rely on to feel safe. Naturally, the ones that people already feel insecure about are easier to work with.

Yes. Which is why, to me, the essence of horror can be summed up in four words: This Is Not Right.

"This" could be any of Stephen King's levels, as explained by him below:

"The 3 types of terror:

The Gross-out: the sight of a severed head tumbling down a flight of stairs, it's when the lights go out and something green and slimy splatters against your arm.

The Horror: the unnatural, spiders the size of bears, the dead waking up and walking around, it's when the lights go out and something with claws grabs you by the arm.

And the last and worse one: Terror, when you come home and notice everything you own had been taken away and replaced by an exact substitute. It's when the lights go out and you feel something behind you, you hear it, you feel its breath against your ear, but when you turn around, there's nothing there..."

[vitruvian]

Originally Posted by Brett

Conmen, scammers, robbers, thieves, embezzlers, and tax collectors. Identity frauds, too. The evil state. Blackmailers, slanderers, gossips.

There is a trope in which a character suddenly and mysterious loses his social place: the staff at his hotel deny he was ever there, people he had memorable interactions with earlier in the film deny knowing him, his credit and debit cards stop working, his wife disappears, and he is accused of a crime. But works that make much of this are usually (arbitrarily, I think) classified into the thriller genre rather than the horror genre. It does sometimes happen for supernatural reasons, and the effect is certainly horrifying in, say, Neil Gaiman's Neverwhere.

This is a possible fear in modern society - fear, not so much of social failure, as of social negation. Possible monsters:

If your life is wiped out as described above, with or without the 'invisibility' factor to go with your new destitute and homeless status, it could be caused by any of witches, psis, aliens, MiBs, or any other creature with the ability to manipulate minds. There's also the possibility that the victims themselves have unknowingly become a monster type - ghosts.

If somebody or something replaces you in your life, it could again be any of the above types, or it could be golems, tulpas, doppelgangers, changelings, etc. that make a habit of taking over people's lives. The replacement could extend beyond social position and other people's memories/reactions to the victim, and get into the victim actually losing aspects of his or her identity. E.g., a golem that becomes more and more like the original person, while the person's distinguishing characteristics smooth out until just a fairly featureless clay statue; or evil dolls that suddenly take over the lives of their victims, with those victims getting trapped in immobile doll forms.