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Old 08-27-2013, 01:47 PM   #31
cosmicfish
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Default Re: My Spec Ops template

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Originally Posted by HANS View Post
As the author of the thing, I'm naturally interested in any legitimate criticism, but I can't remember any of the "many broadly critical" opinions. Considering the amount of research I invested in the book and the playtesting, editing, and general vetting that went into it, I'm fairly sure there's nothing substantially wrong with the contents.
I have no objections to the work in question, but about a year and a half ago I started to create some modern US Navy templates and got some vague unhappiness with SIV:

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...am#post1330919

Perhaps I am guilty of associating more general complaints about realism with SIV specifically, as this was the only complaint I could immediately find.

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Well, there's lots and lots and lots of photos of SEALs riding DPVs, HMMWVs, MRAPs and various other ground vehicles for the past 25 years, which universally sport M2HB machine guns and similar ordnance. It's a safe bet that they know how to use them . . .
Sure, but how much? You did not include them in the SIV templates and I have seen no indications that the modern Teams make any greater use of heavy weapons than they did in the Vietnam era. If they have not gone through some minimum (but substantial) hours of training, can we justify points in Gunner? I think defaults or Dabbler are the way to go.

By contrast, I would say that 18B's and SWCC's absolutely have some formal training in Gunner.
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Old 08-27-2013, 02:57 PM   #32
HANS
 
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Default Re: My Spec Ops template

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Originally Posted by cosmicfish View Post
I have no objections to the work in question, but about a year and a half ago I started to create some modern US Navy templates and got some vague unhappiness with SIV:

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...am#post1330919

Perhaps I am guilty of associating more general complaints about realism with SIV specifically, as this was the only complaint I could immediately find.
"Some questionable skill levels" -- considering that the skill levels along with the stats are the two things that are most difficult to define in relationship to real-world people (and the whole min-max and stat normalization arguments etc), this is not very surprising. However, Ken gives no examples, so for the time being I'm going to safely ignore this ;)

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Originally Posted by cosmicfish View Post
You did not include them in the SIV templates and I have seen no indications that the modern Teams make any greater use of heavy weapons than they did in the Vietnam era. If they have not gone through some minimum (but substantial) hours of training, can we justify points in Gunner? I think defaults or Dabbler are the way to go.
No. First, my SEAL template actually includes Gunner (Machine Gun) under Secondary Skills (SEALs in Vietnam, p. 21) -- and they need it, cause Vietnam-era SEALs operated the heavy guns on the boats they rode. Second, modern-day SEALs often ride in ground vehicles that mount heavy weaponry -- who's supposed to operate them for them? It boggles the mind to assume that they would not be trained in the use of the weapons their own vehicles mount.

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Old 08-27-2013, 03:22 PM   #33
cosmicfish
 
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Default Re: My Spec Ops template

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No. First, my SEAL template actually includes Gunner (Machine Gun) under Secondary Skills (SEALs in Vietnam, p. 21) --
My bad - the division between "primary" and "secondary" trips me up every time.

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It boggles the mind to assume that they would not be trained in the use of the weapons their own vehicles mount.
I agree, I have just become gunshy about adding skills to templates when they are supposed to represent a particularly minimal level of training.

Anyway, any chance you are planning on expanding the scope of your work? A few more supplements along the lines of SIV would be appreciated!
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Old 08-27-2013, 05:06 PM   #34
Tzeentch
 
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Default Re: My Spec Ops template

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"Some questionable skill levels" -- considering that the skill levels along with the stats are the two things that are most difficult to define in relationship to real-world people (and the whole min-max and stat normalization arguments etc), this is not very surprising. However, Ken gives no examples, so for the time being I'm going to safely ignore this ;)
<shrug> I voiced my objections to the skill bloat in the templates back when the book was being revised. I'll revisit that if the book ever gets another edition (preferably a total rewrite this time).
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Old 08-27-2013, 05:29 PM   #35
Þorkell
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Default Re: My Spec Ops template

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What's disputed about it?
That it's disputed?
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