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Old 09-20-2018, 09:41 PM   #11
Anaraxes
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Default Re: Heretical RPM [RPM]

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Originally Posted by A Ladder View Post
I just don't see why you can't have flexible magic and be able to use it in GURPS's combat time scale.
As evileeyore said, the problem isn't that the magic is flexible, it's when it has an elaborate design system to actually stat out a new spell.

Sorcery means building an ability out of traits and modifers; slow. RPM has its own design system, picking paths, negotiating Greater vs. Lesser effects, choosing all the options. Faster than designing abilities, but not something you really want to do in the middle of combat. Faster yet would be Syntactic Magic (Noun/Verb). Is the desired effect "Create Fire" or "Move Air"? Then you're good, after a small delay to negotiate with the GM. (If you pre-build lots of abilities/spells so they're ready to go in combat, then you're back to "choosing from a menu".)
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Old 09-21-2018, 09:29 AM   #12
A Ladder
 
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Default Re: Heretical RPM [RPM]

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Originally Posted by Shostak View Post
If you want the RPM spellslingers to be powerful in Dungeon Fantasy style combat, why would you want to eliminate conditional rituals? With those, a character can prepare several powerful spells in advance, waiting only to be triggered. This is not dissimilar from D&D style Vancian magic. And, since the energy accumulation is all done well in advance, this can allow a caster to basically cast a spell per turn. Not bad. You can also consider allowing some advantages like Mana Sponge--its 135 point version allows Mana Reserve to regenerate at 10 MR/second. That's roll-free mana to power spells!
Man, one of the main reasons I stopped playing D&D was Vancian magic.

Let me clarify, I don't dislike the idea of charms, I dislike how they're implemented. The idea of making a few pre-loaded spells that are ready to fire off appeals to me. What I dislike about charms is that they are made under the assumption that you can use all of your FP, Mana Reserve, take as much time as you need to gather energy, and get sacrifice FP from your buds to make the most powerful charm you can squeeze out...and then do that again 15 to 20 times. And then when you need that time consuming spell you can fire it off in one Ready maneuver. It screams broken action economy to me.
When a party of adventurers is in the field (and not just combat) the wizards do not always have the luxury of sacrificing all of their magical resources (FP/Mana/Sacrifice) and all the time in the world (several gathering attempts) to cast each spell. I prefer my mages to think ahead and weight the options of Do I Blow All My Power Now vs. Do I Hold Some In Reserve, Just In Case and then seriously think about if they have time to fiddle with gathering energy for a spell.
With Charms, they can have MAXPOWERtm again and again and again and then they can have it fast.

If Charms were limited in how much energy you could pump into them I would be more inclined to try them. I might see if I just keep it to Safe Threshold + FP/Mana from personal sources and see how that works.

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Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
As evileeyore said, the problem isn't that the magic is flexible, it's when it has an elaborate design system to actually stat out a new spell.

Sorcery means building an ability out of traits and modifers; slow. RPM has its own design system, picking paths, negotiating Greater vs. Lesser effects, choosing all the options. Faster than designing abilities, but not something you really want to do in the middle of combat.
This might sound super meta, but I don't think I'd let my players improvise completely new spell formula in combat. I don't want Jason, the guy playing the wizard, to hold up playing the game by coming up with a brand new Ice Sphere Death Explosion spell on his turn. But I think I would be ok with a few minutes of Jason asking how the energy cost changes when he wants to put Explosion on his fireball.
Another way to say this: I think my players would understand if I told them "no, new spells take a while to work out the specific rituals/hand movements/words in game time. If you're ok getting skipped each turn (taking Concentrate or Do Nothing maneuvers) while you figure out effects and energy cost while everyone else takes their turn then go ahead. Otherwise, just stick to the rituals you know".

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Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
(If you pre-build lots of abilities/spells so they're ready to go in combat, then you're back to "choosing from a menu".)
I'm not against "menus" as a blanket rule, I'm against just one "menu". In fact, I plan to show the grimoire out of T:RPM to my players and have them sit down and work out a few spells in advance to get the hang of it (especially their combat spells) so they have a menu to choose against. I still want my players to be able to go "oh, this menu doesn't have all the options I want. I'm gonna make a new option!".
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Old 09-22-2018, 01:00 AM   #13
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: Heretical RPM

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Originally Posted by A Ladder View Post
1. Remove the -4 penalty for one second gathering
This is at minimum a 35 point advantage. That said, if everyone can do it then it's a 0 point trait. Will it break things? Well, it depends on how familiar the GM is with RPM. A PC who knows the system well and a GM who doesn't is asking for trouble.


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Originally Posted by A Ladder View Post
2. Allow players to pay for energy with a 1:1 ration of FP
I don't see a problem with this. Mana Reserve is basically Energy Reserve which costs the same as FP.


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Originally Posted by A Ladder View Post
3. Tap from multiple energy sources at a time instead of just one
So mana and FP? That seems like a perk to me per source. It's useful, but not crazy useful.


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Originally Posted by A Ladder View Post
4. Make it so conditional rituals and charms do not exist?
I limited them in my own campaign the Chronicles of Ceteri so that most powerful casters had maybe 7ish or so. My advice to you is to limit them instead of just ditching them.


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Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
RPM is already quite powerful, and pushing broken. But I don't think your changes affect that much.
The same can be said for just about any of the other systems sans a firm hand of a GM.

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Originally Posted by Shostak View Post
If you want the RPM spellslingers to be powerful in Dungeon Fantasy style combat, why would you want to eliminate conditional rituals? With those, a character can prepare several powerful spells in advance, waiting only to be triggered. This is not dissimilar from D&D style Vancian magic. And, since the energy accumulation is all done well in advance, this can allow a caster to basically cast a spell per turn. Not bad. You can also consider allowing some advantages like Mana Sponge--its 135 point version allows Mana Reserve to regenerate at 10 MR/second. That's roll-free mana to power spells!
Yeah, someone should write a book at RPM in Dungeon Fantasy or something.
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Old 09-22-2018, 01:13 AM   #14
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Default Re: Heretical RPM

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Originally Posted by Christopher R. Rice View Post

Yeah, someone should write a book at RPM in Dungeon Fantasy or something.
Hmm. maybe like this one?
Thought you might have been to subtle ;)
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Old 09-22-2018, 02:18 AM   #15
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Default Re: Heretical RPM

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Hmm. maybe like this one?
Incantation aren't RPM. It's similar but it's not Energy Gathering*, instead it just takes a certain amount of time to cast a ritual, usually too much for combat casting. Which is why Incanters prepare incantations in advance and hang them ready to use on their aura (much like a D&D Wizard prepares spells).




*I want to say it's referred to as Effects Shaping rather than Energy Gathering?
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