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Old 11-12-2019, 09:51 AM   #31
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Some TL8-9 weapon ideas & stats

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Originally Posted by Nightrider_88 View Post
I would imagine it as HEDP round. SEFOPs are replacing cutting fragmetation damage and works as area-effect damage against light-armored infantry, while power armor and vehicles require direct hit.
Probably, when used as part of 64mm warhead, SEFOPs can be a bit more powerful and thus do some damage to power armor too.
Those TL9 SEFOPS are already being formed by explosives 4x as powerful as TNT. Go to TL10 and you can get an exploive 6x as powerful as TNT and that would give you 4D+4(2).

To penetrate the DR 70 Torso of the lightest suit of Powered Armor in UT you need more than 20D of penetration though that can come from a broad range of base damage and Armor Divisor. To do it with a 15mm weapon from UT at TL9 you have to go to the 15mm Anti-Material Rifle and use APHD for 15D (2). If you just have tio have SEFOP you have to go up to 25mm for 15D(3) Cr.
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Old 11-12-2019, 10:30 AM   #32
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: Some TL8-9 weapon ideas & stats

An 25mm Underbarrel GL with three viper shapecharge rounds should wreck any powered combat armor (just hang it beneath the CAW for those 'just in case' situations). With a /10 Armor Divisor, it cuts through most armor like butter, and it deals 15d damage.
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Old 11-12-2019, 12:42 PM   #33
Joseph Paul
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Default Re: Some TL8-9 weapon ideas & stats

We keep thinking in terms of killing the combatant but a mission kill is often just as good. I suspect that the GURPS handling of HE doesn't do enough to the weapons and equipment that doesn't have high DR. So weapons have DR 6 per UT and HP equal to 4 times the square root of their weight. So not much for most man -or powered armor- portable weapons. While the armor is sealed having a limb blown past the range of motion that it can take will break the wearer and possibly the armor. Antennas are shredded, ammo destroyed, sensors borked. All of those are things we don't actually check on and they are part of what artillery units are known to do to armored units today. They don't need to score a hit directly on the vehicles - being close is good enough to make the vehicles unable to continue. There is also the chance of being trapped by a tree or building that has been blown over or collapsed. Arty looks weak but only because we don't game all of its effects.
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Old 11-12-2019, 12:52 PM   #34
Anthony
 
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Default Re: Some TL8-9 weapon ideas & stats

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I suspect that the GURPS handling of HE doesn't do enough to the weapons and equipment that doesn't have high DR.
GURPS handling of HE has plenty of issues, but realistically it's pretty cruddy at destroying compact objects like weapons and equipment because the effect scales strongly with the size of the object being hit (and conversely, it's really good at destroying buildings).
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Old 11-12-2019, 01:24 PM   #35
Nightrider_88
 
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Default Re: Some TL8-9 weapon ideas & stats

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Originally Posted by Joseph Paul View Post
We keep thinking in terms of killing the combatant but a mission kill is often just as good. I suspect that the GURPS handling of HE doesn't do enough to the weapons and equipment that doesn't have high DR.
Well, that's my point in advocating larger calibers too.
And... whole story with fragmentation just looks somewhat wrong. We got more powerful explosives, better materials, but fragments supposedly have same properties and velocity at all TLs, no matter what explosive and material used.
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Old 11-12-2019, 02:08 PM   #36
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Some TL8-9 weapon ideas & stats

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And... whole story with fragmentation just looks somewhat wrong. We got more powerful explosives, better materials, but fragments supposedly have same properties and velocity at all TLs, no matter what explosive and material used.
<shrug> It'sll the same air you're trying to push the fragments through. That keeps the fragments from being efficient projectiles.
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Old 11-12-2019, 02:26 PM   #37
Anthony
 
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Default Re: Some TL8-9 weapon ideas & stats

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Originally Posted by Nightrider_88 View Post
And... whole story with fragmentation just looks somewhat wrong. We got more powerful explosives, better materials, but fragments supposedly have same properties and velocity at all TLs, no matter what explosive and material used.
That's probably not correct, but it's probably also not very relevant, as ordinary fragment stats are adequate against unarmored targets and ineffective against armored targets, and more powerful explosives is unlikely to change fragment behavior by enough to alter that basic mechanic.

Separately from that, there's no real reason to think we'll get explosives 4x as powerful as TNT in the near future, or even at all. Octanitrocubane (which is what Basic gives as an example for REF 4 at TL 9) is currently estimated at 2.38, and anything stable enough to actually use will be less, probably under 2.
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Old 11-12-2019, 04:04 PM   #38
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: Some TL8-9 weapon ideas & stats

Well, there is some suggestion that a stable brick of 50% metallic hydrogen would have an energy density of ~25x that of TNT, so it is not impossible (and metallic hydrogen is technically TL9). Of course, that would allow for explosive that deal significantly more damage that in UT (around 6d*10 per pound versus the 6d*4 given for in UT).
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Old 11-12-2019, 06:01 PM   #39
Anthony
 
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Default Re: Some TL8-9 weapon ideas & stats

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Well, there is some suggestion that a stable brick of 50% metallic hydrogen
The evidence for metallic hydrogen actually being metastable at moderate pressure is... nonexistent.
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Old 11-12-2019, 06:35 PM   #40
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Some TL8-9 weapon ideas & stats

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Octanitrocubane (which is what Basic gives as an example for REF 4 at TL 9) is currently estimated at 2.38, and anything stable enough to actually use will be less, probably under 2.
A factoid in my memory (though it's an old one) says Octanitrocubane had a density of about 2. Google puts it at 1,98 and TNT at 1.65. As a shell filler for the same volume but not of course the same weight the cumulative effect is 2.85x as powerful munitions.

I've heard some talk of exotic metal-based explosives. If they are even denser you could hit the UT numbers as shell fillers if not REF/unit of weight.

Of course, you could also end up with weapons that just disntegrate their casings rather than turning them into useful fragments.
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