10-30-2019, 05:30 PM | #11 |
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Re: Tragic endings
The self sacrificing endings aren't tragic properly speaking.
They're sad but they're heroic. The protagonists live up to the best that is in them unlike a tragic protagonist who lives up to the worst and is destroyed by it. That's even rarer in RPGs.
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Michael Cule,
Genius for Hire, Gaming Dinosaur Second Class |
10-30-2019, 07:07 PM | #12 | |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Tragic endings
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I've had a few tragic endings for characters, but they were either negated later (resurrection magic) or were so forced by the GM (well, Storyteller, as the group I played Vampire: The Masquerade with apparently thought every campaign had to end with everyone dying) they don't really count. I've actually sort-of tried to do various flavors of "heroic sacrifice" in a few campaigns, but for some reason when I do my dice luck goes from horrible to actually fairly good. Some of the examples in this thread are really good though, arguably better than happy endings would have been in those situations (and as I generally prefer happy endings, that's saying quite a bit).
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10-31-2019, 06:31 AM | #14 | |
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Re: Tragic endings
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Here I must disagree with you (and with Shakespeare): R&J isn't a tragedy. It's what we literary types call 'an idiot plot' which only works because everybody involved is an idiot. Especially Friar Laurence.
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Michael Cule,
Genius for Hire, Gaming Dinosaur Second Class |
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10-31-2019, 06:49 AM | #15 |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Tragic endings
It's nonetheless an overly-restrictive definition of tragic/tragedy. Note in the linked Oxford definitions of those two words, the first definition (which is generally the most common) of each is the way they are being used in this thread, while you are restricting things to the second, and arguably just a (large) subset of the second.
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10-31-2019, 11:31 AM | #16 | |
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Alsea, OR
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Re: Tragic endings
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That it's an idiot plot is irrelevant to the boolean greek definition... |
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10-31-2019, 01:42 PM | #17 |
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
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Re: Tragic endings
A lot of tragedy is dependent on people acting like idiots. And honestly, "acting like idiots" and "living up to the worst" aren't all that distinct concepts, I would say most Greek tragedies involve people acting like idiots too.
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10-31-2019, 03:14 PM | #18 |
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chatham, Kent, England
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Re: Tragic endings
The uses of Geas / Gesa and Destiny disadvantages as in GURPS Celtic Myth handle this quite well on a character / individual level.
A prophetic dream the night before meeting the woman my character would love and have a child with was mostly forgotten, but was written down to be referred to by the GM. Sometimes the dream's details, when they happened, reminded me as the player, but I couldn't recall for certain what they meant. It all came true, not in the way they'd guessed, and it also fitted with the woman's death geas, her being a warrior, she knew how she would die. My own character's geas 'never send her away' was the last part to come true, done to keep her safe, but fating her to die. This was very good GM'ing, and tough to play, and needed a level of trust as well. Similar effects can be had by playing to the conventions of the Wuxia genre, I've found. |
10-31-2019, 10:21 PM | #19 | |
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Re: Tragic endings
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10-31-2019, 10:23 PM | #20 | |
Join Date: Feb 2007
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Re: Tragic endings
Quote:
The best tragedy has the idiotic behavior arise naturally from some specific character flaw or bad choice, rather than random foolishness.
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