Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-27-2012, 06:56 PM   #1
Aneirin
 
Join Date: May 2012
Default Bugs

Hello. I was wondering when a size modifier became counter productive?

I am not talking about superhuman mini people, they are a special case.

What I was wondering is, say you had people walking through a jungle, and in the jungle you had small animals. A poisonous beetle, a deseased rat, a rabid cat and so forth (and none of these creatures are swarms)

For the beetle, it would mainly be a pereception check, or hoping you havea good doctor if it bites and poisons you. But what if they do notice the beetle?

With a cat, I can see the size modifier bonus being fine, as they are fast and it can be difficult to hit them, luckily as they can't really hurt you, you can go all out on it.

I was thinking of just gm fiat. You spotted it, you kill it easily. And if in some case it happened during combat, an individual could sacrifice their step to autmatically crush it...as it just seems odd making people to roll to kill a bug (a flying bug, certaintly, and the size modifier would be important there and fully justified)

But against small targets that can't move that fast,, like a slug, making somebody roll to it seem ridiculous. Perhaps when size modifer gets to a certain level, speed should be taken into consideration.

i.e. you add the difference in basic speed to the modifier to get the to hit roll.

A bug has a size modifier of -5 (don't have my basic set to hand, number is most likely wrong). Its basic speed is 1 (or even zero, taking several seconds to go one yard)

A humans basic move is 5. That means you are only at -1 to hit the bug (as the difference in basic speed is 4)

A wasp on the other hand, has size modifier -5, and a basic speed of 6.
An encumbered knights basic speed if 4, and he is fatigued taking him to 3. This means, that your total to hit is now -8 (size modifier is -5, basic speed of human is 3-6 equals -3. -8 (double minus turns into a plus) 3 equals -8, as the speed now makes more of a difference.

Could also add the DB as a plus to hit small creatures. (easier to smack something with a shield than the blade of a sword, wouldn't double as wind resistance will push it away...I wouldn't try hitting a fly with a shield)

This may be overcomplicating things though. How do you handle small insects? Rats and humming birds? (especially as you don't roll to hit swarms and pretty much kill a few a turn depending on what the swarm is automatically)
Aneirin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2012, 08:59 PM   #2
gilbertocarlos
 
gilbertocarlos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Caxias do Sul, Brazil
Default Re: Bugs

Why do you even care? It's a bug, not a killing machine.

If they want to attack a bug instead of the guy shooting at them, I declare an All Out Attack(determined) telegraphed, since the size modifier difference is bigger than 4, it's an area attack, and the bug can only defend if he can move enough in one turn, with he does not.

So, someone with DX10 will have a to hit of 12(75% chance) that is not defended.
But I would require an attack, You need at least a move & attack, since you need to focus on the ground and then step.
gilbertocarlos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2012, 09:37 PM   #3
Refplace
 
Refplace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
Default Re: Bugs

Large area attacks and Stamps take care of most of this.
__________________
Looking for group in my area
My GURPS official contributions
My GURPS fan contribution and blog:
REFPLace GURPS Landing Page
My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items)
My GURPS Wiki entries
Refplace is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2012, 01:58 AM   #4
Xplo
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Default Re: Bugs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aneirin View Post
But against small targets that can't move that fast,, like a slug, making somebody roll to it seem ridiculous. Perhaps when size modifer gets to a certain level, speed should be taken into consideration.
Theoretically, if the attack has a larger SM than the target, the attack's SM should be used. It doesn't matter much which part of your sole hits the slug.

Supposing the PCs aren't distracted by something else, they could do an AoA: Determined to get +4 to stomp the slug, with a Telegraphic Attack for another +4, and arguably they should get another +4 or so since they're not under combat stress (even if the slug is poisonous, it's not really a threat on the ground). And if you absolutely, positively have to stomp it on the first try, Evaluate for three seconds.
Xplo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2012, 02:53 AM   #5
JCurwen3
 
JCurwen3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Default Re: Bugs

Quote:
Originally Posted by gilbertocarlos View Post
since the size modifier difference is bigger than 4, it's an area attack, and the bug can only defend if he can move enough in one turn, with he does not.
Where is that rule, or is it a houserule? About the SM difference greater than 4 making it an area attack.

As a general thing, I do think GURPS should handle this better (unless I'm missing some rules), probably factoring in Move or Basic Speed into it. After all, now we're talking about a simple bug NPC. But what if we were dealing with a "Bug's Life" campaign with bug PCs? Or human PCs vs creatures as big compared to them as we are to bugs. And what if one or more of them (bug or human PC) is a speedster, faster than you'd think they'd be and able to dodge what for others would be theoretically undodgeable based on their size and speed.
__________________
-JC
JCurwen3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2012, 03:45 AM   #6
Aneirin
 
Join Date: May 2012
Default Re: Bugs

Quote:
Originally Posted by gilbertocarlos View Post
Why do you even care? It's a bug, not a killing machine.

If they want to attack a bug instead of the guy shooting at them, I declare an All Out Attack(determined) telegraphed, since the size modifier difference is bigger than 4, it's an area attack, and the bug can only defend if he can move enough in one turn, with he does not.

So, someone with DX10 will have a to hit of 12(75% chance) that is not defended.
But I would require an attack, You need at least a move & attack, since you need to focus on the ground and then step.
I was thinking of jungle treks with bugs that if they bite you could screw you over. Perhaps a hallucination effect or nausea during a fight, or perhaps something that has a chance of killing through necrosis. Maybe the local indigineous
people ambush when their prey are high on bug poison.
Aneirin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2012, 06:43 AM   #7
vicky_molokh
GURPS FAQ Keeper
 
vicky_molokh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Kyv, Ukraine
Default Re: Bugs

Evaluate and Telegraphic Attack don't stack normally.
__________________
Vicky 'Molokh', GURPS FAQ and uFAQ Keeper
The Eye of Eclipse Phase. A Discord server focusing on Roleplaying, Sci-Fi, Transhumanism, and discussion of other assorted topics, from tech to boardgames, from politics to philosophy.
vicky_molokh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2012, 06:54 AM   #8
Gollum
 
Gollum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: France
Default Re: Bugs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xplo View Post
Theoretically, if the attack has a larger SM than the target, the attack's SM should be used.
And it sounds realistic. I never tried this, but hitting a flying bee with a sword swing must be very hard.
Gollum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2012, 07:44 AM   #9
gilbertocarlos
 
gilbertocarlos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Caxias do Sul, Brazil
Default Re: Bugs

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCurwen3 View Post
Where is that rule, or is it a houserule? About the SM difference greater than 4 making it an area attack.

As a general thing, I do think GURPS should handle this better (unless I'm missing some rules), probably factoring in Move or Basic Speed into it. After all, now we're talking about a simple bug NPC. But what if we were dealing with a "Bug's Life" campaign with bug PCs? Or human PCs vs creatures as big compared to them as we are to bugs. And what if one or more of them (bug or human PC) is a speedster, faster than you'd think they'd be and able to dodge what for others would be theoretically undodgeable based on their size and speed.
http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/faq/FAQ4-3.html#SS3.4.2.23
gilbertocarlos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2012, 01:09 AM   #10
starslayer
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Default Re: Bugs

Someone has never had a fight with an angry hornet.

Just because a creature is small does NOT make it 'trivial' to hit is. Most small creatures have a great deal of reduced move which negative affects there dodge scores. The rules of SM+4 attacks being large area injury and being able to attack the area where the creature is in still apply.

If you have a bug that is SM 0, but can move 5 meters per second with similar acceleration and linear dodging capabilities as a full grown man (IE move is still 5, and it has a dodge score of 8)- it is going to be basically impossible to hit. If it further has the same linear durability as a full grown man (10HP), it will also be virtually impervious to the sort of attacks that are used against such creatures (against a mosquito that you are trying to swat out of the air the attack might be trading attack power for increase to hit, or using a flurry of blows in a desperate attempt to get one to connect knowing it will end the insect).

So SM itself never becomes a detriment, apply the realistic reductions to move, HP, dodge, etc that come with reduced SM makes being small a bad thing.

As for where the threshold for 'you just kill it' is, I would say that it is at the point where effective skill > 15, AND minimum damage will still kill it- at that point you can just say 'you kill it, its dead.'. Unless of course it is dramatically appropriate that you kill it immediately (poison bug crawling on buddies back).
starslayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.