Automatic Success or Failure when Dodging or Defending

[luguvalium]

As I'm re-reading all the TFT rules, here's another rule clarification question:

Automatic Success and Failure rules are well known for a Roll to Hit, as described in Advanced Melee p11. Automatic Failure Rules for a Roll to Miss are at AM p16.

At AM, p18 are rules when rolling 4 dice against a Dodge or Defend, they say: 4,5 are Always Hit, 20 is Always Miss, 21,22 Dropped Weapon, 23,24 Broken Weapon.

Does this mean than one can never have Triple or Double Damage when rolling to hit against a Dodge or Defending target?

At In The Labyrinth p38 is a list of automatic success and failure ranges for saving rolls, they show 4 dice automatic success as 4-8 Is the To Hit vs Dodge or Defend intentionally different?

Finally at ITL, p16 under talents for Unarmed Combat IV and V lists attacks against high proficiency martial artists used 5, 6 or 7 dice but don't state the values for automatic success or failure.

Has some clarity been made to these anywhere?

[Kirk]

This probably does need more clarity in the rules and GM screen, etc.

NRBAH but we tried to spread out by % the critical hits and misses. If rolling 5 dice, say, we would still have a triple, double, auto hit spread, assigning the numbers as possible to mirror the % of those on 3 dice.

[JLV]

Originally Posted by luguvalium

Does this mean than one can never have Triple or Double Damage when rolling to hit against a Dodge or Defending target?

That's the way we always played it, based entirely on the way this rule read versus the rest of the rules. (However, note below.)

Originally Posted by luguvalium

At In The Labyrinth p38 is a list of automatic success and failure ranges for saving rolls, they show 4 dice automatic success as 4-8 Is the To Hit vs Dodge or Defend intentionally different?

I've had this same question for 35 years. We eventually decreed that the rules on ITL, p38 were generally in effect except in certain highly specialized and/or extremely rare situations. As it stands in the RAW, though, it's almost like there was no point to the table on p.38, because everything else seems to be treated as a "special case" and you never would really use the table!

[larsdangly]

This is a loose feature to the RAW. I produced my own table that covers this issue for rolls on 2 to 8 dice, forcing the odds to be similar to the canonical 3d roll rules. But you could argue that the odds of automatic good outcomes should fall with increasing numbers of dice. So, its hard to know what (if anything) was intended.

[Rick_Smith]

Originally Posted by luguvalium

As I'm re-reading all the TFT rules, here's another rule clarification question: ...

Hi Luguvalium,
Good questions. On the GM's screen there was a table that gave not just the auto - success and auto-failure numbers but also what was a triple, double, dropped weapon and broken weapon for all those different dice. Once I got the GM screen, I stopped using the table on ItL page 38.

The way I looked at it was the GM screen rules were the general rules, to be used anywhere. However, the DEFEND option was pretty weak, so special rules (where no double or triple could happen), were written for it. This special rule over rides the GM Shield, in that particular situation.

In the case of UC v, people dodging / defending must be hit with 6 or 7 dice. I would use the table on the GM shield, but if the attacker rolled just amazing, would disallow any double or triple results. I agree that the edge cases in the UC v talent are not well described.

Warm regards, Rick.

[zot]

Originally Posted by JLV

That's the way we always played it, based entirely on the way this rule read versus the rest of the rules. (However, note below.)

I've had this same question for 35 years. We eventually decreed that the rules on ITL, p38 were generally in effect except in certain highly specialized and/or extremely rare situations. As it stands in the RAW, though, it's almost like there was no point to the table on p.38, because everything else seems to be treated as a "special case" and you never would really use the table!

There are a few cases that aren't explicit in naturalist, recognize value, boating, acute hearing, etc.

I think you need p38 for using talents like those.

[ak_aramis]

Originally Posted by luguvalium

As I'm re-reading all the TFT rules, here's another rule clarification question:

Automatic Success and Failure rules are well known for a Roll to Hit, as described in Advanced Melee p11. Automatic Failure Rules for a Roll to Miss are at AM p16.

At AM, p18 are rules when rolling 4 dice against a Dodge or Defend, they say: 4,5 are Always Hit, 20 is Always Miss, 21,22 Dropped Weapon, 23,24 Broken Weapon.

Does this mean than one can never have Triple or Double Damage when rolling to hit against a Dodge or Defending target?

At In The Labyrinth p38 is a list of automatic success and failure ranges for saving rolls, they show 4 dice automatic success as 4-8 Is the To Hit vs Dodge or Defend intentionally different?

Finally at ITL, p16 under talents for Unarmed Combat IV and V lists attacks against high proficiency martial artists used 5, 6 or 7 dice but don't state the values for automatic success or failure.

Has some clarity been made to these anywhere?

There was a table in the codex showing the various levels for up to (IIRC) 6d tasks.

[KevinJ]

Just one of the ambiguous rules in the game.

Is it contradictory? I don't think so.

Was it insufficiently explained? I think so.