Attribute Adding Magic Items

[zot]

If a wish can only raise an attribute up to 16, why not say the same thing about items? The Aid spell could stay as-is, so that Revival, etc. are still possible.

[Skarg]

Originally Posted by luguvalium

... Also I think such items should not allow a given user to learn spells or talents which they could not know without them. If a character has raised their ST to 14 they can't learn the Warrior talent. A wizard can't learn high IQ spells, etc

Yes...

Originally Posted by KevinJ

This bit was never really specified in the rules, but it's how I interpreted them.

Well there is :

Originally Posted by page 11 of In The Labyrinth

When a magic item gives you a temporary IQ increase, you can NOT use the increased IQ to learn new spells or talents.

It doesn't mention ST or DX adders, but I'd tend to assume the same.

... even if there is hardly any reason for someone to ever remove or deactivate an attribute adder, as written...

[KevinJ]

Originally Posted by Skarg

Yes...

Well there is :

It doesn't mention ST or DX adders, but I'd tend to assume the same.

... even if there is hardly any reason for someone to ever remove or deactivate an attribute adder, as written...

I stand corrected.

[farbror]

I am all in favor for attribute adding magic items. They made gaming so much fun back in the days. Me as a cheapskate Game Master spiced up my adventures with very few of them but the players loved them.

[Oneiros]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Ah, that's an interesting alternative: each +1 counts as its own enchantment, so getting a +5 eats up your entire allowance...

If they have to be in the game at all, I think this is the perfect way to limit them using the rule of 5.

[KevinJ]

Originally Posted by Oneiros

If they have to be in the game at all, I think this is the perfect way to limit them using the rule of 5.

Or you could just change it for yourself. Why fix a problem that may not actually exist.

[Oneiros]

Originally Posted by KevinJ

Or you could just change it for yourself. Why fix a problem that may not actually exist.

The reason this thread exists is because of the many people who've put forth clear arguments that there is a problem with adders (the items, not the snakes.)

[Skarg]

There are a few bits of magic in Advanced Wizard that I and some GM's I know decided were not available, for various reasons, generally that we didn't like their effects on play and power implications.

Yes experienced GMs can and will continue to do so. However:

* I would suggest some things (if left in) be given some GM suggestions to consider whether to have them available (or to alter them so as to avoid problems), for the sake of new GMs who may otherwise include them and regret it (most of these I learned to dislike from experience running TFT as my first RPG).

* I would also suggest assuming most/all such magics not be assumed to generally be available, for example in published adventures and settings sections, guild descriptions, etc., because several of these are disliked because they throw off gameplay, balance, what makes sense to do, economics, etc., and if you assume they are a factor, it can affect the balance of those things for everyone.

(Kind of like how if you play Death Test 1 or Grail Quest with characters who have access to ITL talents and/or fine-quality equipment and/or magic items, it throws the balance off, because none of the characters in them use those things.)

[ecz]

Originally Posted by Rick_Smith

Hi ecz,
I don't recall that in the rules, can you give a reference? (...)

Elsewhere in the rules, it does talk about ordering magic items from the wizard's guild.

someone has responded to your question about the suggestion in the rules to not let players to have too powerful magic items.

About magic items available via an order to the Guild, I also like this rule it a lot.

I see this rule as the golden opportunity for the wise GM to actually LIMIT magic items proliferation in our CGs leaving the players with the feel they can obtain everything.

There are many possible reasons for the Guild to reject a order (that the GM dislike for whatever reason):

a) We are busy with past orders, please come back here in a year;
b) who are you? We do not use create magic items for strangers;
c) where is the king's permission to buy magic items?
d) fine! but you must provide all ingredients by yourself;
e) sorry we do not have the permission to create this item;
f) fine! but you must first buy the yearly subscription to sustain the Guild. It's $5.000 OR you can make a certain mission for the Guild before we can accept the order...

OR the order can be accepted (payment in advance included) and simply the laboratory could explode one month later killing the wizard before the item is delivered (no refund of course).

also the rule allowing players to create magic items by ourselves buying a Laboratory is fine.
But the GM can always limit any unwanted item creation using his imagination:
a) so many taxes that de facto stop the activity;
b) Magic Guild interference
c) underworld interference
d) a law or a order from the local authority that suspend magic item production or force the creation of magic items for the king and/or the Royal Guards

I still remember when my wizard PC finally bought a Magic Laboratory and left it to an apprendice for a few weeks having an adventure out of town .

When I returned in town at the place of my laboratory I found a barber shop.

[tomc]

Originally Posted by ecz

When I returned in town at the place of my laboratory I found a barber shop.

Nice :)

Of course, who says you get to use your laboratory to make things for yourself? The local Powers That Be may decide they'd prefer you make things for them. Those laboratories are just chock full of flammable stuff...

A resourceful GM shouldn't have too much trouble shaping his campaign world to his tastes.