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Old 09-03-2014, 08:02 AM   #41
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Default Re: Space race to Mars in 1979 alternate timeline help, please

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Originally Posted by Agemegos View Post
I understand that Lambert was working on finding an orbit given two observations of the object's position.
OK, that makes sense. You just have to mentally jump from "two observed positions" to "two desired positions" and keep the same mechanics, I guess?

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Old 09-03-2014, 08:05 AM   #42
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Default Re: Space race to Mars in 1979 alternate timeline help, please

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OK, that makes sense. You just have to mentally jump from "two observed positions" to "two desired positions" and keep the same mechanics, I guess?

Bill Stoddard
I guess. But I'm no rocket scientist.
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Old 09-03-2014, 08:36 AM   #43
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I guess. But I'm no rocket scientist.
Me neither, but I have read much of the old Colorado Springs textbook on orbital mechanics. It made my brain hurt, but it was really pretty once I struggled through it.

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Old 09-03-2014, 12:43 PM   #44
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Default Re: Space race to Mars in 1979 alternate timeline help, please

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Elderly couples (straight or gay, it is not relevant) that have been together at least twenty years. Retired astronauts and their wives/husbands with vasectomies. Preferential treatment to couples that fit the criteria in which the non-astronaut partner is a geologist, physician, chemist, or other useful specialty.
That might work, although elderly folks may have more health problems.
How old is "elderly"? I may be missing something here...


Homosexuality is actually relevant, by the way (unless some funky social changes are going on in this timeline). We aren't talking about today.
Astronauts draw heavily on the military. And homosexuality was considered a mental disorder for most of the period in question.



RE: Astronauts and "astronauts"

I'm not sure any ''non astronauts'' would be included. I think everyone on the mission would not only be an astronaut by practical definition, but also receive rigorous astronaut training.

Last edited by combatmedic; 09-03-2014 at 12:49 PM.
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:00 PM   #45
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Default Re: Space race to Mars in 1979 alternate timeline help, please

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...


RE: Astronauts and "astronauts"

I'm not sure any ''non astronauts'' would be included. I think everyone on the mission would not only be an astronaut by practical definition, but also receive rigorous astronaut training.
Maybe better terms would be career and non-career astronauts.
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:22 PM   #46
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No, they can't. They have no ability to produce food, which is what limits their endurance. They don't even try to recycle water - they dump all their wastes into the ocean, and make more fresh water from the ocean water. They also electrolyse oxygen from the ocean water for atmosphere replenishment.

They aren't remotely closed systems in the way a spacecraft needs to be. There are a lot of useful lessons to be learned from them in how to cope with side products and contamination in a closed-cycle system, but they aren't prototypes.
All good points. They use nuclear power to do things no other small TL 7/8 vehicles could though.

Enough energy would allow them to get virtually all the water and oxygen they need with regolith processing. Even easier if they land near an icy deposit and/or pole.
Recovering the CO2 requires well designed photosynthesizing systems. That and hydroponics seem the hardest part. Algae aquaculture with spirulina would go a long way to keeping a healthy/survivable diet if not nicely varied. Heck, it could act as a test bed to notify if micro-contamination gets into the water systems.
Bringing a few tens of tons of the frozen good foods should keep morale from dropping to the point of stabbing for smuggled chocolate bars.
I don't expect anywhere near 100% food self sufficiency.

I suppose the other important limiting facet is how long they must live on stores and produced food and of course finally decide how many researchers on board.
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:24 PM   #47
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Default Re: Space race to Mars in 1979 alternate timeline help, please

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That might work, although elderly folks may have more health problems.
How old is "elderly"? I may be missing something here...


Homosexuality is actually relevant, by the way (unless some funky social changes are going on in this timeline). We aren't talking about today.
Astronauts draw heavily on the military. And homosexuality was considered a mental disorder for most of the period in question.
....
Men remain fertile until the day they die, for the most part, and many women into their 50s. But imagine impotency, severe vaginismus, and asexuality as selling points.
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Old 09-03-2014, 01:43 PM   #48
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Default Re: Space race to Mars in 1979 alternate timeline help, please

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Originally Posted by Agemegos View Post
Look at the pork-chop plot, which tells you exactly that.
I'm afraid I don't know near enough orbital mechanics to create one with my parameters. My large delta V means I can't even assume cheapest Hohmann transfers or otherwise already devised windows.
Any way to come up with something useful without hand waving intense enough to lift off myself?
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Old 09-03-2014, 02:22 PM   #49
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Any way to come up with something useful without hand waving intense enough to lift off myself?
Get a hobbyist product that solves orbital parameters? Not sure what the best product of that type is, but it's something that enough hobbyists who do know enough orbital mechanics have built. Kerbal Space Program is very popular, though I haven't used it myself so I don't know exactly how usable it is for your purposes.
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Old 09-03-2014, 02:41 PM   #50
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Default Re: Space race to Mars in 1979 alternate timeline help, please

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I'm afraid I don't know near enough orbital mechanics to create one with my parameters. My large delta V means I can't even assume cheapest Hohmann transfers or otherwise already devised windows.
Any way to come up with something useful without hand waving intense enough to lift off myself?
Use Google to find an existing pork-chop plot for Earth-Mars. If you can't get one for 1979, use another year. 204 months is both seventeen years and eight repetitions of the approximate 25.5-month recurrence of a possible Hohmann transfer orbit from Earth to Mars. So if you're being fussy about fine detail 1996, 2013, or 2030 will give you similar effects from eccentricity and inclination to those in 1979.


Or if you have access to a copy of MATLAB, download a Lambert solver, and use that.
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