Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-26-2020, 02:57 AM   #1
johndallman
Night Watchman
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
Default [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Hard to Kill and Hard to Subdue

Hard to Kill [2/level] is a mundane physical advantage, which improves your rolls to avoid dying. It first appeared in GURPS Supers for 3e.

Hard to Subdue [2/level] is also a mundane physical advantage, which improves your rolls for avoiding unconsciousness. It first appeared in GURPS 4e, although the Extra Stun advantage in 3e was a related concept.

Both advantages give conditional bonuses to HT rolls, to avoid dying and to avoid becoming unconscious respectively. In realistic campaigns, the GM has the option of limiting characters to 1 or 2 levels of both advantages.

The bonus for Hard to Kill applies to all rolls to avoid dying, not just death check rolls at multiples of ‑HP. If that bonus lets you avoid dying, you nonetheless collapse, apparently dead or disabled. A Diagnosis roll (or Mechanic for machines) is required to tell that you aren’t dead. You recover consciousness in the normal time for loosing consciousness due to injury. Note that two levels of Hard to Kill, plus the Mortal Wounds rule (p. B423) mean you have to fail a HT roll by 5 to die instantly.

Making a roll thanks to the Hard to Subdue bonus has no special effect, you simply remain conscious. I’m pretty sure that if you have both advantages, and collapse due to being saved from death by Hard to Kill, then Hard to Subdue doesn’t give you a way to avoid unconsciousness, because there’s no roll involved.

These advantages are common options on published templates for combatants and survivors. Bio-Tech can genengineer them, and DF Barbarians have perks with Hard to Kill as a prerequisite. Magic: Death Spells clarifies when Hard to Kill affects resistance rolls against spells, and Powers does the same for both advantages vs. Afflictions. Supers discusses using Hard to Kill to emulate the Comics Code, and giving inanimate objects the reverse with Easy to Kill. Zombies often have these advantages, for unstoppability.

These advantages have obvious uses for PCs, but their use on NPCs and “monsters” is a little subtler. Opponents with Hard to Kill don’t last any longer in a fight (that’s Hard to Subdue) but they have a tendency to show up again: it’s harder to eliminate them from the setting.

I keep feeling I ought to buy these advantages, and managing to get away without doing so. Have they saved the day in your games?
johndallman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2020, 04:04 AM   #2
Refplace
 
Refplace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Yukon, OK
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Hard to KIll and Hard to Subdue

I use both but infrequently, preferring higher HT or Fit/Very Fit.
Hard to Kill is also good as a GM for making it less likely key NPCs die, not just so they come back but so they can be captured without resorting to GM Fiat.
__________________
My GURPS publications GURPS Powers: Totem and Nature Spirits; GURPS Template Toolkit 4: Spirits; Pyramid articles. Buying them lets us know you want more!
My GURPS fan contribution and blog:
REFPLace GURPS Landing Page
My List of GURPS You Tube videos (plus a few other useful items)
My GURPS Wiki entries
Refplace is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2020, 07:55 AM   #3
Phil Masters
 
Phil Masters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: U.K.
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Hard to Kill and Hard to Subdue

I have to admit that I generally forget about the “fall over, but not actually dead” rule attached to Hard to Kill. But then, I don’t use it very much anyway.

(There should probably be a “Doesn’t Fall Over” Enhancement for the Advantage.)
__________________
--
Phil Masters
My Home Page.
My Self-Publications: On Warehouse 23 and On DriveThruRPG.
Phil Masters is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2020, 08:35 AM   #4
Rupert
 
Rupert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Wellington, NZ
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Hard to Kill and Hard to Subdue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Masters View Post
I have to admit that I generally forget about the “fall over, but not actually dead” rule attached to Hard to Kill. But then, I don’t use it very much anyway.

(There should probably be a “Doesn’t Fall Over” Enhancement for the Advantage.)
At that point it's going to cost as much as the 'only HT' component of HT, so it's probably better to just buy up HT.

I see both a lot in my games, though not on new characters, probably because they're coming in at 750 points in a 'mundane' game, and so players can afford to just buy all the HT and Fitness they think they need for their characters. On the PCs back when the game was just starting and PCs had 150-200 points, Hard to Kill-2 was very popular.
__________________
Rupert Boleyn

"A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history."
Rupert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2020, 08:54 AM   #5
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Hard to Kill and Hard to Subdue

I almost never use it. Since +1 HT contains +1 FP (worth 3 CP) and +0.25 CP (worth 5 CP), it is not worthwhile to spend 2 CP for +1 Hard to Kill or +1 Hard to Subdue, especially since +1 HT also gives you a +1 to a number of useful skills.
AlexanderHowl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2020, 09:01 AM   #6
whswhs
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lawrence, KS
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Hard to Kill and Hard to Subdue

For the most part, I prefer Fit. Getting +1 to avoid both unconsciousness and death for 5 points, rather than getting each for 2 points, seems like a better deal, when you take into account that you don't have to spend a little time appearing to be dead or unconscious—not to mention the other benefits of Fit. Of course, you don't get the dramatic payoff of "I'm not dead!", which is why the other two are cinematic and Fit is realistic.
__________________
Bill Stoddard

I don't think we're in Oz any more.
whswhs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2020, 09:01 AM   #7
SilvercatMoonpaw
 
SilvercatMoonpaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Hard to Kill and Hard to Subdue

I wonder what you'd need to add to this to have a kind of "No one ever finds your body when this happens" mechanic. Essentially the character always manages to die in such a way that they can't be captured or their continued existence verified.
__________________
Pronoun: "They/She"
SilvercatMoonpaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2020, 09:13 AM   #8
Anders
 
Anders's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Hard to Kill and Hard to Subdue

Quote:
Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
For the most part, I prefer Fit. Getting +1 to avoid both unconsciousness and death for 5 points, rather than getting each for 2 points, seems like a better deal, when you take into account that you don't have to spend a little time appearing to be dead or unconscious—not to mention the other benefits of Fit. Of course, you don't get the dramatic payoff of "I'm not dead!", which is why the other two are cinematic and Fit is realistic.
You could take Fit and then Hard to... on top of it.

(hmm... new perk - Hard to Stomach - if someone tries to eat you they become violently nauseous)
__________________
“When you arise in the morning think of what a privilege it is to be alive, to think, to enjoy, to love ...” Marcus Aurelius
Anders is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2020, 01:12 PM   #9
AlexanderHowl
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Hard to Kill and Hard to Subdue

Or you could take HT 16 and Very Fit. You effectively get +6 FP (worth 18 CP), +1.50 Basic Speed (worth 30 CP), +8 Hard to Kill (worth 16 CP), and +8 Hard to Subdue (worth 16 CP), with means that you are saving 5 CP before you factor in the +6 to HT-based skills (worth 60 CP) and a +8 to HT-related threats (worth 15 CP). For 75 CP, you end up with 155 CP worth of benefits.
AlexanderHowl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2020, 04:37 PM   #10
RogerBW
 
RogerBW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: near London, UK
Default Re: [Basic] Advantage of the Week: Hard to Kill and Hard to Subdue

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilvercatMoonpaw View Post
I wonder what you'd need to add to this to have a kind of "No one ever finds your body when this happens" mechanic. Essentially the character always manages to die in such a way that they can't be captured or their continued existence verified.
That's definitely getting into Unkillable territory, which is perhaps a better starting point for that kind of power.

I haven't used this much, though I should – I tend to run high- and ultra-tech games where rolls not to die or fall unconscious can be quite common for combatants.
RogerBW is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
advantage of the week, hard to kill, hard to subdue

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.