How lethal is a master?

[AlexanderHowl]

So, I was wondering how lethal a master fighter would be in your games? For example, let us look at the following 250 point swordmaster:

Attributes: ST 12 [20]; DX 14 [80]; IQ 12 [40]; HT 14 [40]

Advantages: Ambidexterity [5]; Combat Reflexes [15]; Fit [5]; High Pain Threshold [10]; Night Vision 5 [5]

Disadvantages: Berserk (12) [-10]; Code of Honor (Soldier's) [-10]; Enemy (Rival Mercenary Band, Hunter, 6-) [-10]; Insomniac (Severe) [-15]; Sense of Duty (Companions) [-5]

Skills: Bow (A) DX [2]-14; Brawling (E) DX+2 [4]-16; Broadsword (A) DX+10 [40]-24; Fast-Draw (Arrow) (E) DX+2 [1]-16; Fast-Draw (Sword) (E) DX+2 [1]-16; Shield (E) DX+2 [4]-16; Shortsword (A) DX+10 [8]-24.

The remaining 20 character points would be for customization. So, how would such a character fair as an ally or an opponent in your games?

[johndallman]

He's a bit out-of-genre in all of the games I'm playing or running.

In Leave Not a Rack, he'd attract quite a bit of attention in 1930 London. If he attacked the PCs, he'd be a very dangerous opponent, as we only have one hand-to-hand fighter, and he might well eliminate her rapidly.

In Irresponsible and Right, he wouldn't be amazingly useful as an ally, because there are rather a lot of guns in a WWII campaign. If he attacked the party, he'd do some harm before being gunned down.

In Infinite Cabal, he'd be a reasonable sidekick, but would need to broaden his skill set quite a lot. If he attacked that party, their main fighter would slaughter him, and their second-line fighters would be a match for him.

[Maz]

He would be pretty deadly - assuming we put him in a power armour and give him a vibrosword and pump him full of combat drugs - like the PC's. :D


In my game the PC's are about CP:350. But I have a stat-cap of racial+5, and a skill-cap of skill+5.
This means normal humans can't get higher than skill-20. Even then, only one has reached that cap as they have a lot of other skills they find more important.

But lets assume they are unarmoured and have left their guns and drugs at home, even then most of them could still take your swordmaster down.

The cat-person. Has move 11 and effective dodge 13+3retreat+2acrobatic = 18. Even if SwordMaster makes -12/-6 deceptive attack cat-person will still often dodge. And is then going to use superior mobility to make flank attacks or even rob you of making attacks. And if SwordMaster goes berserk he is going to get a sword through the eye.

The girl. She is going to move in close defensively and the first time he attacks will make a judo parry and grab his swordarm. She is not strong but SwordMaster lacks any grabbling skills. She has Judo-17, with arm-wrench techniques.

The brute. Has so much ST and HPT that he tends to just power through with his greatsword. He will most likely lose to SwordMaster as he tend to rely on superior DR to keep him alive longer than his opponent. His only chance is that if he gets just one hit in on SwordMaster you have to roll for Berserk and if that fails, SwordMaster is dead as soon as he makes an AoA.

The psychic. Will use Telekinetic ST:22 to grab SwordMaster and squeeze until something pops.

[AlexanderHowl]

You can adjust to swordmaster to be a gunmaster as needed. It would not take that much of a change to give him or her Pistols-24 and Rifles-24.

[Hide]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

So, I was wondering how lethal a master fighter would be in your games? For example, let us look at the following 250 point swordmaster:

Attributes: ST 12 [20]; DX 14 [80]; IQ 12 [40]; HT 14 [40]

Advantages: Ambidexterity [5]; Combat Reflexes [15]; Fit [5]; High Pain Threshold [10]; Night Vision 5 [5]

Disadvantages: Berserk (12) [-10]; Code of Honor (Soldier's) [-10]; Enemy (Rival Mercenary Band, Hunter, 6-) [-10]; Insomniac (Severe) [-15]; Sense of Duty (Companions) [-5]

Skills: Bow (A) DX [2]-14; Brawling (E) DX+2 [4]-16; Broadsword (A) DX+10 [40]-24; Fast-Draw (Arrow) (E) DX+2 [1]-16; Fast-Draw (Sword) (E) DX+2 [1]-16; Shield (E) DX+2 [4]-16; Shortsword (A) DX+10 [8]-24.

The remaining 20 character points would be for customization. So, how would such a character fair as an ally or an opponent in your games?

Well, it depends.

Having 12+ in any skill makes you capable of teaching a skill; so I would start from there.

Being “good with the sword” is not enough. He has a lots of points in his swordplay, but lacks weapon master (and perhaps heroic archer and trained by a master). His skill level (24) also calls for an “I will absorb all penalties” game instead of a tactical one where you think twice before dealing a blow to your enemy’s neck while taking an all-out attack.

His base stats are pretty high.

I would set the minimum (not final/definite) base stats for the template and then let players decide about them; the same goes for skills… So I would write a description such as: “The ‘lethal master’ has at least: HP 12, DX 12, IQ 11 and HT 12, his signature skills are Sword and Bow, they should be no less than level 14. He also has the signature advantages and disadvantages XYZ”.

Then, (as I see it) 20 points for customization are quite a few, this is very restraining. In believe advantages, perks, quirks and disadvantages are cool game changers that give your characters a personality. For example, adding weapon master would take all the points in the template… What kind of customization is that?

In my opinion, you don’t really need DX 14, you could have a good selection of advantages to make him a better fighter; enhanced tracking with perfect balance and blind fighting is a much versatile option than night vision and DX+2. A master should be able to battle more than 1 guy at a time. Also, why would you fight in the dark without light?

Having high DX makes you good at many DX skills at once, and that’s kind of boring (even in fantasy). Spending 1 CP in acrobatics (hard) gives you acrobatics 12. So, you can pick 20 DX skills and remain in the “safe zone” without thinking much about your character’s role.

In the other hand, a master that did not managed to train his mind and has the risk of going berserk, does not seem much like “the master”. I think including this disadvantage should be a player’s choice. Instead, “blood lust” makes more sense for a “lethal” master. (At least he should have more HP than 12 to avoid going berserk as fast). And high pain threshold with berserk seems redundant (in the long run).

On the other hand, berserk makes him quite meek. He has chances to snap, turning him into a risky option for tactical combat (because he cannot tank due to his low HP)… What if he is defending a wizard and goes berserk?

These are just some of my thoughts on that template; you could check "Seals in Vietnam", it has good templates I would call "lethal".

- Hide

[Railstar]

Distant Sun...

There skills are kept modest. Skill 13 is a soldier. Skill 14 is a knight. Skill 15 is a good knight. Skill 16-17 is a knight famous for being far better with a sword than other knights.

I think there SwordMaster would quickly get a reputation as, well, SwordMaster, due to being 6 points higher than the best guy on the continent.

Paladin: I think SwordMaster wins effortlessly. It's not even interesting. Paladin does carry a puffer pistol, or might use a lance on horseback, so could avoid engaging from stabbing distance, but if they get close SwordMaster will easily win.

Assassin: Again, SwordMaster is skilled enough to Parry even when she does really sneaky stuff like Hidden Weapons. I feel like the only option is gunpowder again. And since he's Insomniac it will be hard to catch him sleeping.

For those games, SM would be too powerful for most things, and frankly comes across as Murder-hobo Sue, so it wouldn't be interesting.

Cabal/Supers...

Again very few people would be so skilled, but those who are have an Unusual Background to explain it - and those backgrounds usually involve some other kind of superpowers. So there's guys with Broadsword 21 in the world, but they are usually say vampires from Roman times and therefore also have ST 20+ & 30 HP along with DR and such.

Werewolf: I think SwordMaster would win if they engaged in a close-up fight. If SM stabs Wolfy in the eye, and Wolfy goes Berserk, then suddenly Wolfy is stuck in a fight he's going to lose. However, if Wolfy knows SM is essentially the God of Broadsword, then he will probably pounce on him from behind, grapple him and maul.

Vampire Necromancer: Glimpse of Hell, her default way of ruining people's day. Fright Check at -5 and none of your usual advantages apply. Once he makes a successful Parry despite being mentally stunned, she'll realise he's too dangerous to stay near and throws a death spell on him. Or just shoots him while he's motionless... If converted to GunMaster, then Injury Tolerance will survive the initial sniping and Missile Shield will solve the rest.

Bodyguard: Not sure how she'd take him on, since he could be GunMaster instead of SwordMaster. However, since all his skills are focused on fighting a way through things, it should be easy enough to lure him into an ambush.

Puff (yes, a magic dragon): If SM gets within range then Puff will just plain barbecue him. Has enough DR to survive most guns or swords, and Reverse Missiles will make GunMaster have a very bad day. Keeps his head up while fighting so people can't shoot his eyes.

Overall, the Cabal game is that combat isn't the hard part, instead fights are won by information gathering and preparation until the fight itself becomes an afterthought. Since SwordMaster just takes things on directly, he would fail at the kind of warfare this campaign is all about.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

S

Attributes: ST 12 [20]; DX 14 [80]; IQ 12 [40]; HT 14 [40]

Advantages: Ambidexterity [5]; Combat Reflexes [15]; Fit [5]; High Pain Threshold [10]; Night Vision 5 [5]

Disadvantages: Berserk (12) [-10]; Code of Honor (Soldier's) [-10]; Enemy (Rival Mercenary Band, Hunter, 6-) [-10]; Insomniac (Severe) [-15]; Sense of Duty (Companions) [-5]

Skills: Bow (A) DX [2]-14; Brawling (E) DX+2 [4]-16; Broadsword (A) DX+10 [40]-24; Fast-Draw (Arrow) (E) DX+2 [1]-16; Fast-Draw (Sword) (E) DX+2 [1]-16; Shield (E) DX+2 [4]-16; Shortsword (A) DX+10 [8]-24.

The remaining 20 character points would be for customization. So, how would such a character fair as an ally or an opponent in your games?

75% of the time he'd be dead meat because he'd be berserk. Seriously, only expendable npcs take berserk much less on a 12-.

The rest of the time..... say against my old World of D'y'r't group he still wouldn't do very well. He has the skill to spar with Nyx the Barbarian but can't punch in her weight class. His Parry-16 doesn't hold up againt her monrningstar and he probably wouldn't get hrough her DR 10 armor without having a very powerful magic weapon.

[Mark Skarr]

Well, in the Teen Supers game, if he got the drop on any of the teens before they activated their powers, he'd probably kill them.

However, if they used their powers, it wouldn't even be a fight.

In the IW games, it really depends. Against the non-combatants, save Sherry and Contessa, he'd be highly effective. Sherry would wipe his mind and Contessa would simply take over his mind. The only person he'd really have to "fight" would be Saeko, and it would be tough. Her skill is only 20 with her katana, but she's got extra attack.

It wouldn't even be a fight against the werewolf (DR 20, regeneration, extra attack and hits for 5d+2 cutting). And, if his berserk kicked in, it wouldn't be a fight against Saeko. Her patience and extra attack would really make short work of him.

He'd be really effective in the Zombie Survival game . . . until his berserk kicked in and he got overwhelmed.

Berserk is a bad thing.

[AlexanderHowl]

Berserk only applies 25% on a 12- (remember, that is the self-control roll to avoid going berserk, not the roll to become berserk), and it only applies when the character is injured more than 25% of HP. With Parry 16, he or she has a 98% chance of avoiding injury during a melee attack when an opponent does not succeed with a critical success, giving only a 1% chance that any melee attack will trigger Berserk (when you factor in the chance for enemy critical success). When it does occur, well, with a Basic Speed of 7.00, he or she is likely murdering one person a turn before they attack him or her.

With an effective HT of 15 and High Pain Threshold, the character will likely remain conscious and avoid death until he or she drops dead due to automatic death, especially if he or she goes berserk. Unless he or she is going solo against an army, he or she is likely to murder his or her way through any fight. After all, we are talking about someone who rolls at a 16- when stabbing an opponent in the eye.

[Mark Skarr]

However, none of our games are fantasy. He'd be taking injury from ranged attacks from the get-go. He'll be going berserk very early on and doing nothing useful against fliers and the ranged attackers.

Heck, for Pinky and her plasma rifle, she only need to get close and he'll be taking damage from the splash.

The short answer is, he's a really good swordsman, and he brought a sword to a super fight.