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Old 03-07-2018, 09:19 AM   #91
whswhs
 
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Default Re: Defining IQ

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
I think that high IQ criminals are capable of doing effective evaluations of the cost-benefit ratio of each crime and tend to go for maximum return with minimum cost. In the modern age, that would tend to be cybercrime and/or stock market manipulation. In the former case, the crime can be committed through programs seeded weeks or months before the event. In the latter case, the crime can be committed through people who do not know that they are committing the crime (such as with a pump and dump). Unless they have severe impulse control issues, they will likely not get caught dealing drugs or robbing banks.
Or, as Alex Comfort pointed out decades ago, running for political office.
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Old 03-07-2018, 10:59 AM   #92
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Default Re: Defining IQ

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Or, as Alex Comfort pointed out decades ago, running for political office.
Yes. They don't break the law. They know how to use it to get exactly what they want.

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Old 03-07-2018, 11:59 AM   #93
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Yes. They don't break the law. They know how to use it to get exactly what they want.
Not only to use it, but to make it to favor their own interests. Though being a powerful politician gets you a lot of immunity if you do break the law.
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Old 03-07-2018, 12:26 PM   #94
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Default Re: Defining IQ

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Not only to use it, but to make it to favor their own interests. Though being a powerful politician gets you a lot of immunity if you do break the law.
Yes. That is precisely what I wanted to mean by: "to get exactly what they want."

And I would like to add: they (people with a very high IQ, not necessarily politician ones) don't have to risk their life to rob a bank or to deal illegal drugs in order to get thousands of dollars because they can earn far much more with legal business or stock exchange.
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Old 03-07-2018, 12:30 PM   #95
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Default Re: Defining IQ

Basic point being that there are plenty of legal ways to take advantage of a lack of ethics.
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Old 03-07-2018, 02:06 PM   #96
mr beer
 
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Default Re: Defining IQ

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Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl View Post
I think that high IQ criminals are capable of doing effective evaluations of the cost-benefit ratio of each crime and tend to go for maximum return with minimum cost. In the modern age, that would tend to be cybercrime and/or stock market manipulation. In the former case, the crime can be committed through programs seeded weeks or months before the event. In the latter case, the crime can be committed through people who do not know that they are committing the crime (such as with a pump and dump). Unless they have severe impulse control issues, they will likely not get caught dealing drugs or robbing banks.
I can think of a couple of serial killers with unusually high IQ, Ed Kemper and some other dude who chained women in a hole in his basement while making (perfectly legit) good money on the stock exchange.

They failed their criminal cost/benefit analysis is what I'm saying, though I suppose that backs up the notion that GURPS Disadvantages can be horribly crippling.
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Old 03-07-2018, 02:41 PM   #97
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Default Re: Defining IQ

Mental disadvantages are practically designed to overwhelm IQ. It does not really matter if you have an IQ of 5 or an IQ of 15, you will still fail Berserk (12) 25% of the time.
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Old 03-07-2018, 02:53 PM   #98
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Default Re: Defining IQ

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I can think of a couple of serial killers with unusually high IQ, Ed Kemper and some other dude who chained women in a hole in his basement while making (perfectly legit) good money on the stock exchange.
They weren't attempting to make money via crime, though. It's perfectly possible to be smart, wealthy, and a horrible person, but you're likely to be smart enough to avoid going around robbing liquor stores.
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Old 03-07-2018, 05:09 PM   #99
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Default Re: Defining IQ

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They weren't attempting to make money via crime, though. It's perfectly possible to be smart, wealthy, and a horrible person, but you're likely to be smart enough to avoid going around robbing liquor stores.
FWIW I think Kemper turned himself in didn't he?

And I don't think they were inexorably closing in on him due to mistakes he'd made at the time either!
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Old 03-07-2018, 06:00 PM   #100
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Default Re: Defining IQ

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That's incorrect. I've tried briefly to look into where this myth of very-high-IQ individuals doing less well professionally and socially comes from, with no success. There's no evidence that (real-world) IQ above some optimal level is associated with poorer outcomes. Most mega-successful entrepeneurs, politicians, etc. probably aren't much above IQ 130, as you stated, but not for that reason. It's simply because of how far fewer people there are the further towards the tail of the distribution we go. The SMPY and Duke TIP research programs clearly show that individuals with IQ 160+ do very, very well professionally, as well as having low divorce rates, practically nonexistent crime rates, and normal self-reported life satisfaction.
Most very intelligent people I can think of have a lot of issues with depression and so forth. And it isn't necessarily that they're socially retarded (as in incapable) but that they find it exhausting and demeaning. This is anecdotal, but it also matches up with the observations of basically everyone I know. There is evidence that people have trouble communicating with people significantly less intelligent than them, as well as evidence that being unable to communicate with people leads to alienation and disaffection. That alone is a link, even if there is no direct causal link between high IQ and emotional distress there is an indirect one right there. And if you have trouble communicating you may have trouble getting into positions where you can use your talents - either because of problems interacting with co-workers or problems appealing to would-be employers. Again, these are known issues, and as communication problems are linked to significantly higher IQ it follows that they would suffer from some of these problems. Their intelligence may allow them to overcome these problems, but that's a situational and tactical solution. It would still indicate that they're less successful than they would be if their boss/SO, etc. were also a 150 IQ - but, as you say, these people are extremely rare.

Also, when looking into scientific journals for evidence for or against anything it's worth noting that most results are not replicated (whether they could be or not) and most studies are done to get funding, not do science.

Last edited by VonKatzen; 03-07-2018 at 06:05 PM.
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