Why no new GURPS hardcovers?

[A Ladder]

I personally am a big fan of having the physical books. I have the Basic Set and Powers in hardcover and the DFRPG. I have printed all of my Dungeon Fantasy and Action pdfs and have them in binders that I bring to the table.

As much as I like the Print on Demand, I just wish they had the option of getting a glossy black and white book. The non-gloss book is just...meh.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

It is a problem that I have with the majority of new games. If no one believes in the game enough to create a physical book that I can pick up in a store and flip through, why should I buy it?

It has nothing to do with "believes in." I believe in GURPS so much it hurts, and if it were up to me – and money were no object – I'd release everything as a glossy hardback, with lots of full-color art. Yes, even the 14-pagers. We'd bleed money, but we're discussing faith, not finances.

On finances, though, there are two things people consistently miss:

1. It isn't the 1970s, the 1980s, the 1990s, or even the early 2000s. It's 2018. Lots of things that worked "back in the day" don't work today. The very existence of digital publishing makes physical publishing harder. The faster-than-inflation rise in the cost of paper and ink, and fuel for shipping – while a good thing for the environment – is also a factor. And the percentage of gamers playing computer games instead of tabletop games is increasing rapidly and monotonically over time.

2. "Okay, but there are people still making it work. Look at D&D!" Sure, but the war is over and one system and its derivatives won. Yes, there are certainly indie titles that get published because they're all but vanity projects that aren't so much about making money as getting published, and don't have to pay overhead on a games company with staff and an office. Yes, there are certainly Kickstarter projects that get published because they get money up front. Yes, there will be exceptions. But an established publisher can't rely on being an exception, can't always navigate the tax labyrinth that crowdfunding creates, and has to show a profit.

To give my honest opinion: I think games publishers have largely come into the present. We're publishing PDFs, selling our goods online, taking advantage of crowdfunding where reasonable, and communicating directly with our market via social media. But games fans appear to be less progressive, in many cases remembering the past in glowing terms and taking shots at the present. If gamers would update their expectations to "mostly PDF, mostly online, with crowdfunding for special occasions," they would be showing us they "believe in" our games. But as long as their heart remains in an earlier age, it's really not us who don't believe, but them.

[Andrew Hackard]

Originally Posted by Kromm

If gamers would update their expectations to "mostly PDF, mostly online, with crowdfunding for special occasions," they would be showing us they "believe in" our games. But as long as their heart remains in an earlier age, it's really not us who don't believe, but them.

It's really quite disheartening to hear people saying we aren't supporting GURPS when we are literally doing everything within our ability and means to continue supporting it.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard

It's really quite disheartening to hear people saying we aren't supporting GURPS when we are literally doing everything within our ability and means to continue supporting it.

I have to agree.

Speaking personally: I sit down here at 0800 and get up at 1800 – eating two meals in front of the screen – but I invoice eight hours, not 10. Effectively, I'm giving an extra 25% as a gift to SJ Games and its fans. It's true that some of the extra time is used for posts such as these, not for creating books . . . but on the other hand, that's still support for our fans. And this is despite my therapist, my girlfriend, and even my own mother saying, "Work less. Take more vacations." Sorry, I can't – in part because all that time doesn't translate into the money needed to take time off and in part because when I take time off, GURPS freezes.

I can't speak with such certainty on less-personal matters, but I know that those above my pay grade have accepted my counsel and taken risks to keep GURPS viable. More projects get approved and more initiatives move ahead than I have any right to expect, given GURPS' earnings.

I really, truly think SJ Games is doing everything it can do to support GURPS. A lot of things people think SJ Games should do to support GURPS aren't practical, whether because I don't have any hours left in the day for them or because they would cost too much. So we don't do those things . . . but my argument is that those aren't things we can do, but things other people would like us to do. I'd love to see the energy devoted to nitpicking that distinction turned to, say, recruiting gamers.

[DouglasCole]

For those curious, I published a breakdown of costs (most of them; some costs are confidential) for the recent Hall of Judgment softcover book on my blog.

The short version is that it cost me about $100 per page including printing, and I was only able to get away with that because I basically had most of the art pre-paid because I'd already done three other books with a common theme.

I've talked about the cost to go from zero to PDF in color, high-quality format on my blog as well, and the upshot is $100-150 per page just for the PDF. Printing and sales success for hardcovers really requires an offset run of 1,500 to 3,000 copies, because POD *cost* for "premium" hardcovers is RIDICULOUS. Check out the DriveThruRPG cost calculator and plug in for Premium Color (for what it's worth, Lulu is higher cost even than this, but some of the quality options are better). A 192-page 8.5x11 color hardback with not-really-that-great 70#/105gsm matte paper? $28 *per copy* to print, for a book with an expected retail price of $30-35 (the market cares not at all about my costs).

I recently had printed 1,500 copies of a 288-page hardcover. It cost me $12,000 and took about 16 weeks to do. If they sell . . . awesome. But I did Dragon Heresy as a faith-based initiative. I wanted to make a full-on hardcover book, and was willing to spend my own money to do it. And I did: the project is currently about $20,000 in the red, even *after* the Kickstarter brought in $16K.

Here's hoping, but the point is, at least for me, is that committing to full-color hardbacks on an ongoing basis means you probably need to have a locked-in demand of thousands of folks for each one to ensure you can recoup your costs, be able to keep the book evergreen if needed, AND fund future development.

[binn05]

Originally Posted by Kromm

I have to agree.

Speaking personally: I sit down here at 0800 and get up at 1800 – eating two meals in front of the screen – but I invoice eight hours, not 10. Effectively, I'm giving an extra 25% as a gift to SJ Games and its fans. It's true that some of the extra time is used for posts such as these, not for creating books . . . but on the other hand, that's still support for our fans.
...

First, thank you for all the support you, SJG staff and writers do for GURPS. It is one of the many reasons that when I could get back to gaming at the beginning of this year, I choose to GM GURPS again.

Second, at least for me, this kind of gaming market scene inside information helps to understand how things are done. We can see a bit about that with SJG's most sold items list but is always good to know more.

Since my gaming group doesn't speak English natively (actually, some don't speak it at all), many times I need to create personal English - Brazillian Portuguese translations for my group.

Since we only have the Basic Set translated for Portuguese, could you elaborate on the translating process? Is it feasible or is it in a worst situation than hard/softcover printings?

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Speaking personally: I sit down here at 0800 and get up at 1800 – eating two meals in front of the screen – but I invoice eight hours, not 10. Effectively, I'm giving an extra 25% as a gift to SJ Games and its fans. It's true that some of the extra time is used for posts such as these, not for creating books . . . but on the other hand, that's still support for our fans. And this is despite my therapist, my girlfriend, and even my own mother saying, "Work less. Take more vacations." Sorry, I can't – in part because all that time doesn't translate into the money needed to take time off and in part because when I take time off, GURPS freezes.

As for those below your pay grade: On one hand, my earnings from writing GURPS books are a significant part of my annual income; I believe only one of my copy editing clients pays me more, added up over a year. But on the other, I spend a lot of time on writing those books, and my hourly rate is substantially less than for copy editing; it might be less than minimum wage! A significant part of my earnings comes from the pleasure of the work. (That's also true of copy editing, but not to anything like the same extent!) And this is even more true of my playtesting other people's books; one comp copy of, say, the new Steampunk book is nice to have, but it works out to pennies per hour.

Now, I do regret that print books have become less economically viable, because I'd really like to have hardbound copies of my recent books to put up next to GURPS Steampunk, GURPS Fantasy, and GURPS Low-Tech—particularly of GURPS Social Engineering and GURPS Adaptations. I'm proud of them and would like to be more able to show them off! But if GURPS stopped being economically sustainable at all, as happened with other excellent games such as Big Eyes Small Mouth, for example, I'd find it even harder to recruit players, and fewer people would have any idea what GURPS is.

[adm]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I certainly do. It makes reading in the bathtub feel safer.

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

I don't understand how people do this. Your hands are wet, you'll get the book wet. You have to be careful not to drop or splash the book.

This is why I read on my water resistant smart phone, it doesn't mind if you drop it in the water.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard

It's really quite disheartening to hear people saying we aren't supporting GURPS when we are literally doing everything within our ability and means to continue supporting it.

Originally Posted by Kromm

I have to agree.



I really, truly think SJ Games is doing everything it can do to support GURPS. A lot of things people think SJ Games should do to support GURPS aren't practical, whether because I don't have any hours left in the day for them or because they would cost too much. So we don't do those things . . . but my argument is that those aren't things we can do, but things other people would like us to do. I'd love to see the energy devoted to nitpicking that distinction turned to, say, recruiting gamers.

I also want to acknowledge and extend my appreciation.

Couple of points.
Would physical copies in a store increase sales overall?
Sure, but with the number of stores declining and closing down all over the place that value decreases each year. Even mass produced and sold regular books are selling better online than at brick and mortar outlets.

It costs a LOT more money to produce, distribute, store and sell physical books than digital. And those costs are not just SJG costs but the distributors and retail stores have to front certain costs as well. So the physical route has to be more profitable for multiple companies, all of which need to be convinced this is true.
I miss the old days but have adapted and overall I prefer digital for personal use.

Physical product has two advantages, greater visibility and the option to loan out your copies to other players. That visibility is less valuable then it used to be as discussed above. Loaning books out to players might get them interested enough to buy their own copy, but that is less likely the more expensive they are (so digital pricing and convenience helps here).
What I find really valuable here is free digital releases, especially the skill categories, combat cards, spell list, martial arts cheat sheet, and most especially GURPS Lite.

What about advertising?
Flashy content will help but the costs for physical content have to be taken into account by companies that want to stay in business, Remember most go out of business or get bought out, including the big kid on the block.
Retail options in kickstarters can help a store presence but most stores wont participate (money is tied up too long) and for regular physical products?
The currently available physical books that a store could have on their shelves is actually pretty representative.
That covers the rules and some popular genres.

Other advertising?
Blogging, social media, gifting through the online store, word of mouth, those are mostly up to the fans but we can do it. GURPS has pretty consistently put out new material month after month for decades.
We need to talk, block, review or otherwise refer to this stuff as it comes out. I have started, though not consistently enough (and I skipped the last two adventures since my GM may use them they just sit unread and unreviewed by me) and we have a handful of others. Lets get more people talking.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by binn05

First, thank you

You are most welcome!

Originally Posted by binn05

Since we only have the Basic Set translated for Portuguese, could you elaborate on the translating process? Is it feasible or is it in a worst situation than hard/softcover printings?

Translation isn't something SJ Games does or has ever done itself – for any product – since its founding, simply because it doesn't have staff who read and write all kinds of languages. Being a Texas-based company, SJ Games can swing Spanish. I can casually check French, but I would never try to sell my writing en français. And that's just about it.

All non-English-language editions start with someone who has an established track record publishing in another language approaching SJ Games and making a translation deal. This is a license, and we insist on dealing with someone established because we can't check the resulting quality – we're taking their word for it. While I've interacted with Dayspring Games, Devir Livraria, Kadokawa Shoten, Pegasus Press, etc., that's strictly been to answer questions like, "When you use this term of art in English, what do you actually mean by it? The literal translation is very weird."

So it isn't just not the same ballpark, but not the same sport. It's a question of licensing and royalties for us, not a question of printing. The work done by SJ Games is mostly in the realm of making sure the licensing agreement is fair and legal, and answering the very occasional question on terminology.

Originally Posted by whswhs

As for those below your pay grade: On one hand, my earnings from writing GURPS books are a significant part of my annual income; I believe only one of my copy editing clients pays me more, added up over a year. But on the other, I spend a lot of time on writing those books, and my hourly rate is substantially less than for copy editing; it might be less than minimum wage!

I can believe it. I can only afford to write GURPS books because I do so on the clock, for a living wage. On the other hand, I don't see a royalty. Everything I write is on the clock, which means it's 100% the property of SJ Games; should I ever change jobs, it would earn me $0 going forward. How the front-loaded payment I receive stacks up against long-tail royalties, I have no idea.

Originally Posted by whswhs

Now, I do regret that print books have become less economically viable, because I'd really like to have hardbound copies of my recent books to put up next to GURPS Steampunk, GURPS Fantasy, and GURPS Low-Tech—particularly of GURPS Social Engineering and GURPS Adaptations. I'm proud of them and would like to be more able to show them off! But if GURPS stopped being economically sustainable at all, as happened with other excellent games such as Big Eyes Small Mouth, for example, I'd find it even harder to recruit players, and fewer people would have any idea what GURPS is.

Yep. I'd love to be paid to revise the hodgepodge, make-it-up-as-we-go-along GURPS Dungeon Fantasy series into a logical set of hardbacks, folding in innovations from the Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game but yielding a product that's far weightier and more dependent on GURPS than that. That would take years to do and be a ton of work, but I'd love to have those books on my shelf and available to show to those in my life who don't "get" gaming and would like to see evidence that I earn a living at it. (Including my bank, but I digress.) However, because it would take years and cost a tidy sum in paid hours, I know this will never come to pass . . . and I'm fine with that, because I'd rather not shipwreck GURPS for the sake of my ego.