Translation problems in new GURPS Lite Spanish

[Steven Marsh]

It's still on our radar -- I asked about it just last week -- but it's way at the bottom of the stack. (Promo items nearly always get bumped for other products...)

[Extrarius]

I know Spanish at about the one-eighth point level, but I had the idea of playing with google translate using various different phrases (since it does more than simple word-to-word translation), and the word "giro" comes up for many uses of "swing" related to the GURPS usage. I get that "giro" is closely related to "gyration", but is it at all a reasonable word for "swing" in the swing/thrust context?
Likewise, google translate seems to like "empuje" in many phrases for "thrust". Is it reasonable word?

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by Extrarius

I know Spanish at about the one-eighth point level, but I had the idea of playing with google translate using various different phrases (since it does more than simple word-to-word translation), and the word "giro" comes up for many uses of "swing" related to the GURPS usage. I get that "giro" is closely related to "gyration", but is it at all a reasonable word for "swing" in the swing/thrust context?
Likewise, google translate seems to like "empuje" in many phrases for "thrust". Is it reasonable word?

Nope, it isn't suitable, and I'm a native Spanish speaker. Thrust was translated in the 3rd ed days as "acometida",and that is a translation I agree with. Swing is much trickier to translate though.

[demonsbane]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

Nope, it isn't suitable, and I'm a native Spanish speaker. Thrust was translated in the 3rd ed days as "acometida",and that is a translation I agree with. Swing is much trickier to translate though.

Completely true, native Spanish speaker here too. I'm also comfortable with "acometida".

Originally Posted by Extrarius

(. . .) the word "giro" comes up for many uses of "swing" related to the GURPS usage. I get that "giro" is closely related to "gyration", but is it at all a reasonable word for "swing" in the swing/thrust context?

Reading this has made me to think again on the subject. Often I've seen, in Spanish articles about ancient weapons, the same distinction GURPS makes with Swing/Thrust: the respective terms used are Tajo/Estocada.

I wonder if maybe these terms could be accepted for a GURPS translation to Spanish.

OTOH, maybe some other community members around here is/are more familiar with Spanish resources and can take a better look at this particular point. I wonder what term are they using for non-cutting weapons . . . if they are using another term after all!

Regarding the "troublesome" term Swing —tricky in this translation context— here is the notion of "gyration" commented by Extrarius: it's very similar to saying "golpe curvo" (English: "curved hit").

Original text from "¿De filo o de punta?. La Antigüedad hispana" in Celtiberia.net:

"La naturaleza humana tiende al golpe 'curvo' hasta que un entrenamiento severo le enseña a golpear directo desde el hombro. [...] Y sin embargo no hay duda sobre la superioridad del golpe punzante sobre el cortante."

My English translation of these lines from this "Blade or Point?" article:

"Human nature is prone to the 'curved' attack until a hard training teaches him to attack straight from the shoulder [...] There is no doubt regarding the superiority of the thrusting hit above the cutting one."

I've seen that in English usage, sometimes Swing is described as a "curved attack" too.

I hope this helps in some way.

[demonsbane]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

Nope, it isn't suitable, and I'm a native Spanish speaker. Thrust was translated in the 3rd ed days as "acometida",and that is a translation I agree with. Swing is much trickier to translate though.

Have we considered translating Swing as Barrido?

(This word conveys the meaning "sweeping".)

English - Spanish
Thrust = Acometida
Swing = Barrido

[sjard]

Here's a question: Would the word for to strike be better than to swing?

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by demonsbane

Have we considered translating Swing as Barrido?

(This word conveys the meaning "sweeping".)

English - Spanish
Thrust = Acometida
Swing = Barrido

Neat! I think the only issues would be translation conflicts with the Sweep technique, that would also be translated to

Originally Posted by sjard

Here's a question: Would the word for to strike be better than to swing?

Strike ("golpe", also meaning "hit") is generic, and doesn't convey the difference between a swing and a thrust. I really want to know what terms Spanish fencers use, though.

[sjard]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

Neat! I think the only issues would be translation conflicts with the Sweep technique, that would also be translated to

Strike ("golpe", also meaning "hit") is generic, and doesn't convey the difference between a swing and a thrust. I really want to know what terms Spanish fencers use, though.

Unfortunately, the only thing I can find seems to be Golpe. I am only aware of two Spanish sword manuals, and I don't have access to either. One is a smallsword manual and the other is a rapier. The Italian term seems to be Fendente*, which any translation program I can find just converts to Golpe.

*Well, one of the terms, this one specifically referring to swings that travel from high to low.

[demonsbane]

Originally Posted by sjard

Here's a question: Would the word for to strike be better than to swing?

Yes, IMHO it could be better. As Kuroshima is saying, Strike would be "Golpe" in Spanish. If the proposal of the "Barrido" term would be discarded, then I'd stick to "Golpe" —it has been already suggested in this thread.

By choosing Strike ("Golpe"), the result into Spanish would be more like Thrust/Strike instead the usual Thrust/Swing, which isn't a big difference to my mind.

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

Neat! I think the only issues would be translation conflicts with the Sweep technique,

Yes, I thought about Martial Arts techniques conflicting with "Barrido". Anyhow, sometimes it's needed to "trample" some specific terms in benefit of others . . . even if I would avoid it whenever it's possible!

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

I really want to know what terms Spanish fencers use, though.

Would be interesting to find it: in my scarce fencing trainings, most if not all attacks were thrusting, so I don't know the term.

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

(. . .) that would also be translated to

Strike ("golpe", also meaning "hit") is generic, and doesn't convey the difference between a swing and a thrust.

True, technically it doesn't convey such difference, but yes, the term was suggested earlier because it has an ampler meaning, slightly more related with strike and swing than with thrusting attacks. Here is a sort of resume about it in this thread:

Originally Posted by gkzhukov

Maybe simply "Golpe"?

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

-Golpe is IMHO way too bland

Originally Posted by demonsbane

I thought "Golpe" as a possible translation for "Swing", too. (. . .)

I think "Golpe" (English "Hit") is a very straightforward term. However, Thrust/Swing attacks would be "ataques de acometida y golpe", while Thrust/Swing damage would be "daño de acometida y daño de golpear". To my eyes, it could be worse.

So I almost think "Golpe" is a suitable translation for the GURPS "Swing".

[bonetm]

In portuguese the translation is, since the first published edition "Golpe de Ponta", abreviated as GdP and "Golpe em Balanço", previously abreviated as Bal, now as GeB.

The literal translation for spanish would be "Golpear con la punta" and "Golpear en giro" or something similar.