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Old 05-12-2017, 09:28 AM   #1
b-dog
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Default Glamour as the Sanctity of older gods system idea

I was thinking about the faery folk and how they came to be. I feel they were once part of the cosmology of older pagan gods and are somewhat bound to them. Centaurs, saytyrs, nymphs and dryads to the Greek; dwarves, elves and trolls to the Norse and so on. I was thinking that somehow the older gods that lost power left behind their Sanctity which is now called glamour. It is a force that is similar to mama but is strongly aspected toward the older gods cosmology. Thus Greek glamour would power the supernatural creatures and carries of the Greek cosmology like hydras, chimeras and so on but other supernatural creatures from other cosmologies would not be sustained by it. This set up would keep the supernatural monsters in their own areas instead of having them mix and become homogeneous throughout the world. Of course the people who build dungeons would bring in exotics from around the world to guard their treasure but for the most part trolls would be more numerous in Northern Europe than in Asia due to glamour. Also wizards can use glamour like mana but they must use the right language and symbols to control it. A wizard trying to use Norse glamour must invoke spells from runes and speak the language to cast spells properly whereas a wizard using mana would just cast spells due to mana being generic. I think this might tie in with the new Silk Road supplement.
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Old 05-12-2017, 09:58 AM   #2
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Default Re: Glamour as the Sanctity of older gods system idea

That doesn't seem to have much to do with the way the term Glamour is used in GURPS for a certain kind of modifier. So the choice of name might be confusing. But the idea is reasonable, at least as a possible basis for a world: Magic as calling on the power of forgotten or dethroned gods, gods who have fallen on hard times.

The ancient Romans had the word "numen." Originally, as I understand it, it meant "nod," as in a nod of assent. But it came to mean Jove's nod of assent, and then the power of that nod to send lesser spirits and minor deities to do his bidding, and then the power exercised by those spirits. And now it survives in English as the adjective "numinous." Perhaps the word "numen" could convey the desired meaning? Webster says "a spiritual force or influence often identified with a natural object, phenomenon, or place," which seems fairly close.

Or you could look at the Spirit modifier in GURPS Powers, which includes the fickleness of the supernatural.
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Old 05-12-2017, 10:33 AM   #3
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Default Re: Glamour as the Sanctity of older gods system idea

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Originally Posted by whswhs View Post
That doesn't seem to have much to do with the way the term Glamour is used in GURPS for a certain kind of modifier. So the choice of name might be confusing. But the idea is reasonable, at least as a possible basis for a world: Magic as calling on the power of forgotten or dethroned gods, gods who have fallen on hard times.

The ancient Romans had the word "numen." Originally, as I understand it, it meant "nod," as in a nod of assent. But it came to mean Jove's nod of assent, and then the power of that nod to send lesser spirits and minor deities to do his bidding, and then the power exercised by those spirits. And now it survives in English as the adjective "numinous." Perhaps the word "numen" could convey the desired meaning? Webster says "a spiritual force or influence often identified with a natural object, phenomenon, or place," which seems fairly close.

Or you could look at the Spirit modifier in GURPS Powers, which includes the fickleness of the supernatural.
I agree that numen might be a better name for localized spiritual power than glamour. I was trying to change fairies from being completely fickle spirits to more in line with what they were originally, servitors of the older pagan gods. The dwarves and elves were servitor beings to the Norse gods but later they became fairies. Anyway, maybe elves and dwarves are dependent on the Norse numen and that is why they stay there instead of spreading around the world. Sure some elves and dwarves might be able to use the numen of other cosmologies but they tend to be rare and maybe they are the ones who become PCs and dungeon delvers. Maybe the church and Islam drive out the numen of of the older gods and that is why there are few fairies in lands under dominion. Only those elves and dwarves that do not need numen or can use other numen are in those cities which are controlled by the church or mosque.
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Old 05-12-2017, 11:00 AM   #4
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Default Re: Glamour as the Sanctity of older gods system idea

So glamour would be related to a local cultural consensus ?
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Old 05-12-2017, 11:10 AM   #5
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Default Re: Glamour as the Sanctity of older gods system idea

I usually tend to portray the fae not so much as "fickle" but as a kind of "blue and orange" moral compass: Their own moral codes are different from ours. This doesn't mean that we cannot understand their point of view, just that we cannot judge them by our own codes.

Look at it this way: they may see that causing a little injury can cause those strange humans to laugh. Therefore, they conclude that causing a lot of injury can be even more humorous, and wonder why those strange humans don't laugh, since after all they're only providing a lot of what the humans want: an injury to laugh at.

Likewise fae of winter. They may see that humans like snow: they build snowmen and throw snowballs at each other. So they overdo it and cause a blizzard. They don't understand why the humans start cursing them for it; after all, the humans wanted snow!

Basically, fae in my games don't think in terms of moderation. If a little is a good thing, a lot is a better thing.

From our point of view, that may be "fickle". From their point of view, it makes perfect sense!
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Old 05-12-2017, 11:10 AM   #6
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Default Re: Glamour as the Sanctity of older gods system idea

But does it matter more on what gods were/are local, or what people's cultural beliefs were/are?
Can the fey move with human diaspora or are they stuck with more "fixed" deific forces/entities?

I remember a fantasy comedy series where they must remain near humans descended from "their people". The protagonist was a very mixed guy in New York annoyed by "mythical" critters from around the globe.
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Old 05-12-2017, 11:18 AM   #7
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Default Re: Glamour as the Sanctity of older gods system idea

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Originally Posted by D10 View Post
So glamour would be related to a local cultural consensus ?
In a way. I would think that the numen or glamour would be the remnants of previous Sanctity levels of the older gods who have been demoted in power. It would be free magical energy like mana but would be strongly aspected by the Sanctity from which it came. This a wizard would have to understand the culture, language and symbols of the numen from the cosmology he is using as a power source. For example, the numen would shape what kind of elementals there are; earth, air, fire and water in Europe while earth, air, fire, wood and metal in Asia.

Some religions like the Abrahamic ones are intolerant of other gods and magical power so they tend to drive the numen away while in other religions like Buddhism and Hinduism, the numen of the older gods is not driven out and can exist side be side with them.
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Old 05-12-2017, 11:38 AM   #8
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Default Re: Glamour as the Sanctity of older gods system idea

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Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
But does it matter more on what gods were/are local, or what people's cultural beliefs were/are?
Can the fey move with human diaspora or are they stuck with more "fixed" deific forces/entities?

I remember a fantasy comedy series where they must remain near humans descended from "their people". The protagonist was a very mixed guy in New York annoyed by "mythical" critters from around the globe.
I would think that Sanctity builds over time so that an ancient temple where people have worshipped for thousands of years would have stronger Sanctity that a temple recently constructed. Plus the amount of people who believe in the god or gods in questions also affects the Sanctity with more being more powerful. So a guy would builds a small temple to Orsirus in the lands of Thule will have smaller amount of Sanctity than a guy who worships at an ancient temple on the Nile where Orsirus had many years of Sanctity.
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