Buildings and overruns by Ogres/INF

[Ulzgoroth]

Do remember that disabled units actively engage the enemy under automatic systems...

[ken]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Do remember that disabled units actively engage the enemy under automatic systems...

Yes I recall that, but I thought that would apply if they were attacked. But in the active unit just drove around them then...

Could you choose NOT to initiate overrun/ram?

[offsides]

Disabled units fire during overruns at half-strength. There are different "scenarios" for an overrun:

1) Both sides can fire and damage each other - they fight until only one side remains.
2) One side can fire but cannot hit the other because the A/D ration is less than 1-2 - that side dies.
3) One side cannot fire (no weapons with valid targets, buildings, etc.) - the other side gets 2 fire rounds to shoot and then the overrun is over.
4) Neither side can hit each other (e.g., (hover)trucks passing each other, or disabled A1/D2 units) - there's no overrun, and movement continues normally.

One minor question regarding building overruns. It says that any given building can only be hit twice per overrun. What if there's more than one building in a hex? Does the overrun continue until each building gets hit twice (assuming the attacker survives that long), or does the overrun end after 2 fire rounds post defender elimination regardless of the number of buildings. I'm guessing the former, since each building is a "valid target" for 2 shots per overrun, but it's also probably an uncommon situation to have multiple buildings per hex...

[offsides]

Originally Posted by ken

Yes I recall that, but I thought that would apply if they were attacked. But in the active unit just drove around them then...

Could you choose NOT to initiate overrun/ram?

No - if there are defending units in a hex and you enter it, you are in an overrun until the overrun end conditions are satisfied. I suppose you could choose not to fire at a building or defanged Ogre, and maybe even an A0 unit like a truck (not sure on that one), but if the enemy is capable of combat (even if they can't hit you) you must kill them before the overrun will end.

[ken]

Originally Posted by offsides

[...]

One minor question regarding building overruns. It says that any given building can only be hit twice per overrun. [...]

I think (dangerous I know) that in a post else where a building may be hit twice per overrun but you can have as many overruns as movement points. If so a GEV could attack 5 plus times? What about a GEV-PC?

[offsides]

ma

Originally Posted by ken

I think (dangerous I know) that in a post else where a building may be hit twice per overrun but you can have as many overruns as movement points. If so a GEV could attack 5 plus times? What about a GEV-PC?

Actually, a GEV could potentially overrun 7 times - it has 7 MP (4 before and 3 after combat), you may re-overrun a building for 1 MP, and as the rules currently stand there is no limit to the number of overruns a unit can participate in during one turn. GEV-PCs move 3-2, so they could potentially overrun 5 times a turn. Of course, this is modulated by terrain considerations - Town, Forest or Swamp cost 2 MP and end the GEV's turn to boot, meaning it only works that well in clear terrain or if the hex contains a road when you first overrun it (you can't get road bonus when overrunning, and the hex is damaged/road cut after the first one...).

[ken]

Originally Posted by offsides

ma

Actually, a GEV could potentially overrun 7 times - it has 7 MP (4 before and 3 after combat), you may re-overrun a building for 1 MP, and as the rules currently stand there is no limit to the number of overruns a unit can participate in during one turn. GEV-PCs move 3-2, so they could potentially overrun 5 times a turn. Of course, this is modulated by terrain considerations - Town, Forest or Swamp cost 2 MP and end the GEV's turn to boot, meaning it only works that well in clear terrain or if the hex contains a road when you first overrun it (you can't get road bonus when overrunning, and the hex is damaged/road cut after the first one...).

So... If I had a stack of 5 GEVs just one hex away, the first one could move in and attack 7 times (times 2), then the second could move in attack 7 times with the first one attacking 7 more times times 2. The third could move in making for 3x7x2 attacks, etc.

If you staged this right...

[StormCrow42]

Originally Posted by ken

So... If I had a stack of 5 GEVs just one hex away, the first one could move in and attack 7 times (times 2), then the second could move in attack 7 times with the first one attacking 7 more times times 2. The third could move in making for 3x7x2 attacks, etc.

If you staged this right...

I'd call shenanigans on any attempt to use movement order to overrun a stationary target more often than any individual unit's movement points would allow. Since stationary and helpless targets are the only reason you can make more than one overrun in a hex in a turn anyway, I'm happy ruling that a unit must have actually moved or spent a movement point to participate in such an overrun.

[terryocarroll]

No, that's not how it works. You move all units that are going to be part of the overrun into the hex and THEN declare the overrun. For subsequent overruns in the same hex, each unit wishing to overrun would need to expend a movement point.

In any case, a stack of 5 GEVs, using all seven MPs and firing at the building in the fire phase, would do a lot of damage. Each GEV does two points of damage per fire round, plus two points in the normal fire phase. So four points each MP, for twenty-eight, plus two in the fire phase, for 30 damage each, or a total of 150 for five. More than enough to destroy most buildings.

[ken]

Originally Posted by StormCrow42

I'd call shenanigans on any attempt to use movement order to overrun a stationary target more often than any individual unit's movement points would allow. Since stationary and helpless targets are the only reason you can make more than one overrun in a hex in a turn anyway, I'm happy ruling that a unit must have actually moved or spent a movement point to participate in such an overrun.

I agree and would happily to go with that... you would also have to address disabled units since they can participate.