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Old 10-09-2018, 05:24 PM   #1
Engurrand
 
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Default Ghostly Movement, Variants

Ghostly Movement (page H20) is super creepy, super fun to fight, and even more fun to wield.

I've been playing a character (a monster hunters crossroads witch) with Ghostly Movement for the past four years. We've had to rule on some weird questions about how it works. I'll list some of those questions and our house-rulings for your consideration and comment. It's become clear there are two distinct interpretations of the advantage, with important differences in what they can and can’t do. I'll expand on that with write-ups of two variants of the advantage.

First, the questions. Quotes are from Horror pg 20.
  1. Barrier limits:
    Quote:
    You can get anywhere within Move yards, provided that nobody is looking and that you could have gotten there “the hard way,” given sufficient time.
    Consider: You stand facing the center of a glass wall a hundred meters wide and tall. You could get to the other side the hard way, given enough time, by merely strolling around. Can you Ghostly Move to the other side? This question arises more commonly when faced with a window that doesn't open, but views into or out of a building with a distant but unsecured door.

  2. Time limits:
    Quote:
    Requires a Move maneuver in combat… As a special effect, any mundane requirements for getting from A to B replace Warp’s usual success roll, and Warp fails if you can’t meet them.
    Are the rules for Taking Less Time required for these rolls? E.G. With the given example of Lockpicking to get through a locked door, would you roll at the penalty for the difficulty of the lock, or that and the -10 for doing so instantly?

  3. Distance limits: How does this advantage interact with Superjump, Enhanced Move, Flying Leap etc? What if you just want to Warp further?

The answers depend on the power source – is it a special effect of being just that good E.G. Batman, or is it the literal ghostly movement of a supernatural being? The original text allows for both possibilities but does not distinguish between them. Lets try:

Variants

Ghostly Movement (Cinematic Speed)
Your movement is the result of ninja-like skill. You can only move through barriers that you could conceivably pass using your skills in one second. Make the skill rolls for each obstacle as you discover them, moving sequentially through the obstacles exactly as if you were doing so without the Warp advantage. For example, to pass a wall, the wall must have an air-vent that you might fit through and you must have enough Move to reach the vent and get through it. You actually unscrew that vent and climb through it, you just do so very quickly. You get perception rolls to notice complications, may apply additional skills, and can stop whenever you choose. For example, if the vent has a laser tripwire, then you first roll to open the vent, then to notice the wire, then to disarm it, and you may stop at any time, leaving you that far into the process. Any failed roll produces its normal consequences.

Ghostly Movement (Pathed Warp)
Your movement is the result of being a Threshold Entity, or some other Power. You can pass any barrier as long as you know a long way to get past it, can pass the skill rolls, and the destination hex is within Move yards from the starting hex. Not only do you leave no traces, but you literally don’t pass the intervening space. The GM makes all the skill rolls to pass the obstacle(s) in advance of beginning the Warp, auto-failing any perception rolls to notice complications, such as if you knew about a door but didn’t know it was trapped. If any roll fails, including Perception, then the Warp fails and you don’t know why. This leaves you where you started, with no memory of the attempt except that it didn’t work.

Powering Up
Powering Up to go further requires changing two of the original writeup’s limitations:
  • Accessibility, Only places you could walk/climb to, given time, -20%
  • Range Limit, -50%
Cinematic Speed: You will need other traits that let you go further in one second, such as Enhanced Move, Superjump, or Flight. If you have one of these, you’ll need to change the Accessibility to: Accessibility, only places you could otherwise reach given time, -10%, and pay the point difference. Don’t buy down the Range Limit! It is interpreted as Range Limit: Your Move in One Second, -50%.

Pathed Warp: You don’t need additional advantages. Instead, just buy down the Range Limit. You can warp further!

In conclusion: I'm comfortable with these answers to questions 1 and 3, but I have no idea about question number 2. What do you think?

Have you played with Ghostly Movement? Did you encounter these questions? What were your answers? See anything I missed? Cheers!
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Old 10-12-2018, 08:34 PM   #2
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Default Re: Ghostly Movement, Variants

This is one of my favorite advantages, it’s especially useful for NPCs!

Here are my 2 cents…

For question number 1, I think you cannot get to the other side of such wall instantly, because (supposing you are standing in the ground by the center of a 50 yards long, 1 inch wide and 100 yards tall unbreakable glass wall) you still require a “Move” of 100 yards per second in order to comply with the limitations of the advantage and instantly get exactly at the other side.

If you can break the wall, then you can instantly “ghost warp” to the other side leaving the wall untouched, but not because you can stroll around it (that still requires a “Move” of 100 yards, disregarding running and other stuff -but you could run-).

From my perspective, if they don’t see you and the wall is unbreakable, it might take you 20 seconds getting the other side, but you can ignore stuff such as doing dexterity rolls or climbing rolls, etc.

Regarding question number 2, you just need to comply with 2 requirements: being unobserved and having the skills/tools to achieve the feat. So, in combat, first you got to take complete cover or success at “hiding in plain sight” (if possible in combat*), then (if you have the skills/tools) you can declare your “ghost warp”. So, you don’t have to roll to enact the warp per se; however, you might have to roll to prevent others to see you in the first place.

And now question number 3, if you have skills/advantages that enhance your move capabilities, I might allow them in favor of the “ghost warp”.

Finally, the explanation of Ghostly Warp depends on your setting, if you allow it in your setting, suspension of disbelief is granted.

*because, for example, the basic book states “invisibility art is useless in combat”.

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Old 10-15-2018, 11:54 AM   #3
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Default Re: Ghostly Movement, Variants

Can anyone recall examples of film moments which depict whatever horror trope this ability was meant to represent? I couldn't nail it down. Which monstrous users? I'm guessing it's probably something Jason Voorhees has done? He's had a lot of films though.
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Old 10-15-2018, 03:52 PM   #4
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Default Re: Ghostly Movement, Variants

Not a horror fan but in crime/action, the Leverage tv show. Parker the thief (one of the best in the world) is at the rear of the group as they are getting out of the building where security has been alerted. They come to a locked stairway. They turn their heads and go Parker to get her to unlock the door. She opens it from the the other side where she has somehow gotten past them and through the locked door already. Another case, Nate the leader and a temporary ally are talking in a conference room. Parker suddenly chimes in from where she is sitting on the coulter of the sink and coffee setup in the corner. She was not in the room when they went in, the windows don't open and they were facing the only door.
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Old 10-15-2018, 04:32 PM   #5
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Default Re: Ghostly Movement, Variants

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plane View Post
Can anyone recall examples of film moments which depict whatever horror trope this ability was meant to represent?
Basically Jason Vorhees and Batman.

Both horrifying opponents capable of appearing and disappearing into and from directions no one is watching.
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Old 10-15-2018, 04:42 PM   #6
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Default Re: Ghostly Movement, Variants

Every movie or tv show where someone looked at another character, quickly looked away, and when they look at the character, he's no longer there.
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Old 10-16-2018, 01:10 PM   #7
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Default Re: Ghostly Movement, Variants

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcarson View Post
Not a horror fan but in crime/action, the Leverage tv show. Parker the thief (one of the best in the world) is at the rear of the group as they are getting out of the building where security has been alerted. They come to a locked stairway. They turn their heads and go Parker to get her to unlock the door. She opens it from the the other side where she has somehow gotten past them and through the locked door already. Another case, Nate the leader and a temporary ally are talking in a conference room. Parker suddenly chimes in from where she is sitting on the coulter of the sink and coffee setup in the corner. She was not in the room when they went in, the windows don't open and they were facing the only door.
OK, Parker is spooky and would be a rather scary assassin if she'd been that way inclined.

Kwai Chang Caine and some of the other Masters do this sometimes in Kung Fu: The Legend Continues, though I'm not sure if the Kwai Chang from the original series did that, as he was rather younger.
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Old 10-16-2018, 01:46 PM   #8
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Default Re: Ghostly Movement, Variants

Here are some external, youtube links to scenes featuring the trait. I watched these with my sound off, so I don't know how loud they are.

Jason Bourne: https://youtu.be/wuuBc6WgO14

Batman: https://youtu.be/1JHmy5xMwqs?t=30

Freddy Kruger does it at the beginning of this scene - warning horror movie listicle vid - https://youtu.be/lpqtLlzCA3M?t=225

Here it is in The Witch, where she can apparently succeed a Filch roll along the way (cinema sins vid) - https://youtu.be/zI-aTycmzbo?t=75

Justice League disappears on Commissioner Gordon. - https://youtu.be/1qV9JRv3EgQ?t=145

It supplies the justification for the Stealth Hi/Bye Trope and is described in detail as Offscreen Teleportation https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p...n/StealthHiBye
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p...nTeleportation
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Old 10-16-2018, 03:17 PM   #9
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Default Re: Ghostly Movement, Variants

Presumably the Igors from Discworld should have something similar, limited to appearing directly behind their marthter.
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Old 10-17-2018, 10:15 AM   #10
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Default Re: Ghostly Movement, Variants

Quote:
Originally Posted by Engurrand View Post
Here are some external, youtube links to scenes featuring the trait. I watched these with my sound off, so I don't know how loud they are.

Jason Bourne: https://youtu.be/wuuBc6WgO14

Batman: https://youtu.be/1JHmy5xMwqs?t=30

Freddy Kruger does it at the beginning of this scene - warning horror movie listicle vid - https://youtu.be/lpqtLlzCA3M?t=225

Here it is in The Witch, where she can apparently succeed a Filch roll along the way (cinema sins vid) - https://youtu.be/zI-aTycmzbo?t=75

Justice League disappears on Commissioner Gordon. - https://youtu.be/1qV9JRv3EgQ?t=145

It supplies the justification for the Stealth Hi/Bye Trope and is described in detail as Offscreen Teleportation https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p...n/StealthHiBye
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p...nTeleportation
Batman escaping from the cage is probably him jumping through the top while she instinctively looked at eye level... and Freddy just seems to have removed his jacket/Fedora while the camera was covering the stiletto-fighter's dialogue. At first I thought Flash might have speed-carried the JL away but we didn't hear the sound-effect zip his speed made, so Batman probably just prowled off as usual. Not sure what other members were there.

It's hard to think "only Ghostly Movement could explain this" in these instances, because "walk/climb to, if given time" means they could always do it in some amount of time, so we would need to know that they definitely needed more time to do any of these things than the time they had to do them in. Flash/Freddy could have enough maneuvers to do it.

Batman doesn't have superspeed but I'm not sure how long it takes to climb and contort through cage bars. It's also possible what we saw that seemed like a moment looking down at a picture was much longer and she was entranced.
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