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Old 01-01-2020, 07:43 PM   #1
ArmoredSaint
 
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Location: Manhattan, Kansas
Default No Love For Armour?

Wow.

Armor isn't represented as being very effective in this game. Even the best armor only stops a few hits.

Why is there a problem with armor actually stopping all the damage from weapons? I don't get that.
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Old 01-01-2020, 08:32 PM   #2
larsdangly
 
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Default Re: No Love For Armour?

You will find lots of combat 'builds' discussed on this site that disregard armor, but I think the premise of your comment isn't borne out by a close reading of the rules. It is not difficult to create a character with 8-10 points of armor protection for only a -4 DX adjustment, provided you have a little experience and a little money and you go about things in the right way. E.g., fine plate + a small shield + Shield Expertise talent +1 point of Toughness gets you to 9 points. That is a lot - it effectively invalidates most common attacks, and comes close to zero-ing out the average result from a powerful attack, like a halberd charge or heavy crossbow bolt.
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Old 01-01-2020, 08:37 PM   #3
JimmyPlenty
 
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Default Re: No Love For Armour?

It's very effective. Chain and a large shield (5 hits) will counter most any hits from weak weapons right out. 2d damage weapons will still only meekly get through that 70% of the time.

Weaker armor may seem pointless in comparison, but it really depends on what adventure you are running. A swashbuckling campaign would just be fine in leather amror as rapiers are only 1d.

Since Fantasy Trip, by default, combines all weapons and armor, I can see how it could be misleading to the value of some armor.

What battle situations are you running into that the amror seems pointless? (other than wizards obviously)
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Old 01-01-2020, 09:02 PM   #4
hcobb
 
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Default Re: No Love For Armour?

Armor won't save you from a triple damage roll. A 5 or 6 die defend protects against average rolls and makes a triple damage roll very unlikely.
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Old 01-02-2020, 03:12 AM   #5
Chris Rice
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
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Default Re: No Love For Armour?

I don't know what you're talking about. Armour is extremely important. It's important in the Melee arena but even more so in the dungeon; dart traps, spider chests, shallow pits, nuisance monsters, falling rocks - the sort of low damage risks that many dungeons are filled with are anathema to the unarmoured hero. Yet even a suit of cloth armour could save your life. No one but a fool (or a Wizard with powerful protections) would enter any of my dungeons without armour.

In any case, double and triple damage rolls are rare and, contrary to what you say, armour may well save you from them.
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Old 01-02-2020, 04:57 AM   #6
ParadoxGames
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
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Default Re: No Love For Armour?

Also, there are meant to be trade-offs, like armor balances your defense but affects your dexterity. If armor was too powerful for little cost, everyone would be well-armored.
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Old 01-02-2020, 05:40 AM   #7
hcobb
 
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Default Re: No Love For Armour?

Dart traps, shallow pits, nuisance monsters, falling rocks... : IQ 15 + Alertness, also high unencumbered DX really helps.
Spider chests: detect life

Of course I do believe in protecting against slime damage on turn two. Hence the Stone Flesh ring.
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Old 01-02-2020, 01:26 PM   #8
larsdangly
 
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Default Re: No Love For Armour?

While armor is effective, it is fair to note that the penalties for wearing it are significant, making it ambiguous as to whether or not you are better off with or without it. This is by design: Melee was intended to present a game with lots of diversity but no 'ideal builds', so that combats between dissimilar sorts of characters would be competitive. It isn't very realistic in this sense (i.e., you really are better off in armor than out of it if you plan on having a hand to hand fight with sharp weapons).But it is part of the fabric of the game.
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Old 01-02-2020, 02:47 PM   #9
Nils_Lindeberg
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Default Re: No Love For Armour?

Historically most soldiers would get as much armor as they could unless their combat role was as a light infantryman or some sort of skirmisher. But even then those roles were most often given to people with less armor. I haven't heard of soldiers that owned heavy armor but had to remove it to serve in another role on a regular basis.

TFT is a game and we want to have balanced bare-chested barbarians, musketeers, and knights in full plate do battle on equal terms. So armor is a balanced option, not a pay to win option as it used to be historically.

And even in TFT most sensible soldiers would buy as much armor as they can, because they probably think that surviving a battle is more important than their individual kill count.

And it is balanced. As long as you have an adjDX after armor penalties between 8-13 you can't really go wrong against a variety of opponents. If you know your opponents it is almost always better to have one DX higher than them, no more no less. Even a seemingly useless 1 point of armor can be a big difference against certain builds. But if you know your opponents' weapon damage, it is easy to optimize the right level of armor too.
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Old 01-02-2020, 04:00 PM   #10
Agemegos
 
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Default Re: No Love For Armour?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmoredSaint View Post
Armor isn't represented as being very effective in this game. Even the best armor only stops a few hits.
Yeah, but it also takes a slice off the hits that it doesn't stop. Not only does it block all the nickel-and-dime damage, but it reduces a lot of the fight-ending hits to dimes.

The mathematics is surprising. 1 point of armour reduces the effect of 1 die of damage by 28.6%. 2 points reduces a die of damage by half. 3 points of armour reduces one die of damage by a whopping 71.4%.

Quote:
Why is there a problem with armor actually stopping all the damage from weapons? I don't get that.
It's arguably historical, but it produces a regime in which wearing heavy armour becomes a clear winning strategy. TFT is not, does not try to be, and does not want to be a combat simulation game. It is in essence a hugely complicated and fascinating elaboration of "rock, scissors, paper", and it would fail if there were a single beat-all option.
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