Changing Choking to a Mortal Condition [Basic]

[AlexanderHowl]

One repeated issue that I have had in the past has been with the Choking enhancement for Affliction. While suffering Choking, a character loses 1 FP per turn, which is about 60x times as fast as with comparably priced incapacitation modifiers (Agony and Ecstasy). What is even worse from a game balance point of view is that victims continue to suffer HP damage when they get to FP 0 (unlike with Agony or Ecstasy), which means that the one minute duration for a marginal success is a death sentence for the average character (even though it is ostensibly an incapacitating condition rather than a mortal condition).

I suggest that Choking should be changed from an incapacitating condition at 100% to a mortal condition at 300% (it is nearly always as lethal as Heart Attack and requires a more expensive advantage to avoid). This would balance its cost with other Affliction modifiers and prevent players from taking Innate Attacks with Side Effect (Choking) for a cheap kill power for their characters, instead requiring them to purchase Affliction if they want Choking.

What do you think? Do you support making Choking into a mortal conditon at 300%? If not, how would you suggest balancing Choking with other incapacitating modifiers?

[naloth]

Choking does seem under priced, though it's not as dangerous as a heart attack.

- It seems like external aid should be able to cure the condition easily, even without training.
- There are quite a few (cheaper) advantages that make you immune.
- Equipment might you immune.
- Usually it's combined with Respiratory which allows you to avoid or postpone by holding your breath.

I'd adjust the condition first, before working on the value. 1 fatigue/min seems too slow. 1 fatigue/sec seems too fast. An air choke usually takes 1-3 min before you lose consciousness, with death after ~5 min. That's more like 1 fatigue per 10 seconds.

[AlexanderHowl]

Choking an only by cured with First Aid by a friend in the case of an object lodged in the throat (Basic, p. 428). Other forms of choking, like a TK attack or anaphylactic shock, would not be as easy to solve. No Vitals [5] makes a character immune to Heart Attack while Choking requires Doesn't Breathe [20] or Injury Tolerance (Homogeneous) [40].

[naloth]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Choking an only by cured with First Aid by a friend in the case of an object lodged in the throat (Basic, p. 428). Other forms of choking, like a TK attack or anaphylactic shock, would not be as easy to solve. No Vitals [5] makes a character immune to Heart Attack while Choking requires Doesn't Breathe [20] or Injury Tolerance (Homogeneous) [40].

That's not what the game designers intended. To quote powers:

Note that Choking isn’t
usually lethal – it responds to mundane
treatment that takes two seconds and a
First Aid roll (artificial respiration, oxy-
gen mask, Heimlich maneuver, etc.,
depending on “special effects”).

We can take from that that any form of choking should be treated by first aid, possibly preventable by a mask, or perhaps even cured by a quick smack on the back. It depends on what problem was inflicted. A TK attack wouldn't be an example of something "maintained" since it fires and has a duration, so it would need to represent a stoppage of some sort. Anaphylactic shock is currently treated with first aid.

Heart attack on the other hand can be used on machines as well as people, or simply be called a "Death Ray". The actual effect and ways to prevent it is intended to be covered under special effects. That's how Paralysis was used for the Medusa and Gorgon turn people to stone ability, after all. A good description will work around the lack of a heart.

[AlexanderHowl]

The problem is that the rules are not terribly clear on what exactly stops a choking attack (it really should be required for each choking attack to have a stated cure). A TK attack is definately maintained though, as it has a duration, so that victim will suffer choking until the duration ends (baring some curative). Even so, the victim can Do Nothing, meaning that they are dead if they do not have a friendly person nearby to help them, so it is still a mortal condition, just like Heart Attack, though it is not quite as rapid, so pricing it like Coma (+250%) may be better. By the way, Heart Attack cannot normally affect machines, an Affliction can only target machines if it is designed to affect non-living objects instead of living creatures.

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

The problem is that the rules are not terribly clear on what exactly stops a choking attack (it really should be required for each choking attack to have a stated cure).

Going by the quote from Powers, we can know it defaults to 2 seconds of (likely) Ready maneuvers with a skill check against a commonly known skill for dealing with health issues that must be applies to the victim. Other versions of Choking might still work fine under that. For something like a 'TK attack' the time might be just to move the pressure of the attack a few inches to be somewhere not choking.

[AlexanderHowl]

Even so, a victim is helpless and dies without external assistance because they can only take the Do Nothing maneuver.

[MrFix]

Since GURPS uses generic advantages/disadvantages/afflictions to portray different conditions, one type of choking can ultimately be different from another type of choking.

Heimlich maneuver may be useful against lodged food, but what kind of mechanical assistance would stop a magical force field from sealing the throat shut? What part of First Aid treats that? Something like Magical or Cosmic makes it possible.

AlexanderHowl is right, it's certainly under-priced. But I think the worst part of Choking is that you can do "nothing but drop". I think that's inappropriate, as I've seen many people try to do things when they choke on food, even as far as provide self-help, run around, etc.

Holding your breath does not paralyse you, chokehold does not paralyse you. Why does mechanical or magical choking paralyse you for free as an extra effect?

[kirbwarrior]

Originally Posted by MrFix

AlexanderHowl is right, it's certainly under-priced. But I think the worst part of Choking is that you can do "nothing but drop". I think that's inappropriate, as I've seen many people try to do things when they choke on food, even as far as provide self-help, run around, etc.

Holding your breath does not paralyse you, chokehold does not paralyse you. Why does mechanical or magical choking paralyse you for free as an extra effect?

I think another thing to consider is that Choking doesn't make sense to instantly suffocate you. You likely still have some air left. But I do agree, Choking doesn't make sense to utterly stop you from doing anything. Maybe instead you can only or are forced to take actions to try and stop the choking. If you had First Aid you could still spend two seconds and try for a roll but are not paying attention and get the effects of being stunned.

While there might be ways to fix choking, what I think I'd rather do is use actual TK to choke someone from afar and make a new affliction enhancement for cutting off breathing (which could just be called Choking). You can do things without being able to breath, including looking for some way to stop it and likely have some amount of air before you hit suffocation. I'm not entirely certain how it would work or be priced, though.

[naloth]

Originally Posted by MrFix

Heimlich maneuver may be useful against lodged food, but what kind of mechanical assistance would stop a magical force field from sealing the throat shut? What part of First Aid treats that? Something like Magical or Cosmic makes it possible.

TK could stop your breathing or create an obstruction, but I don't see any reason why First Aid couldn't start it up again... Like I said above, this isn't a grapple and squeeze effect that is sustained like a TK grapple would be. Instead this is a shot that has a duration effect that doesn't require the attacker to do anything else or keep concentrating.

Holding your breath does not paralyse you, chokehold does not paralyse you. Why does mechanical or magical choking paralyse you for free as an extra effect?

That's true... Perhaps it should be treated as "forced" breath holding you cannot stop and didn't prepare for?