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Old 11-13-2019, 05:41 PM   #11
Yssa
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Default Re: Heroic Archer House Rule

I want to take a look at the possibility of just skipping the first two rolls (Fast-Draw Arrow, Ready Bow) and instead placing a -4 penalty to the bow skill attack roll. This penalty is the sum of the -3 for trying to hurry (described in the heroic archer advantage) and an additional -1 to take the place of the other rules.

I'm going to start out assuming that the scout will be rolling against a 16 for each of these rolls, since if you're spending the points on heroic archer, you might as well buy those skills as high enough that your odds of failure are minimal, and then look at some permutations from there. This means Having Fast-Draw (Arrow) (16) and Bow (19).

So, if there are no penalties (good conditions, <3 yards, unfogged mind) the odds of failure for each are ~1.9%, or cumulatively 5.7% of failure when trying to draw and shoot on a single turn. A -4 penalty to a Bow (19) would mean rolling against a 15, with odds of success at 95.4% and a 4.5% chance of failure, which is close enough to 5.7 for my tastes.

In practice though, the scout is never going to roll against a 15: they are just going to put four more points into the bow skill, to eat the extra -1 for quick draw, and roll against a sixteen. Now you do have a real change in odds: with three rolls, no matter how high the scout buys their skills, they can't shaek the 5.7% chance of a fail, but now they've gotten themselves down to that maxxed out 1.9% fail per shot = Problemo (maybe? I don't know if I actually care, but for the sake of argument let's assume I do).

The reality is though, how often is the archer taking an unpenalized shot? The value of the scout in combat is attacking at range or targeting the soft spots, or a combination of both. For the sake of example, lets say the archer (Quck Draw (16)/Bow Skill (20)) is shooting at ten yards, causing a penalty of -4 to hit. With three rolls, they would roll against 16 (1.9% fail), 17 (1.9% fail), 13 (16.2% fail) for a total failure rate of 20%. With one roll, they roll versus 12 (20 -4 for house rule quick draw, -4 for range) which leads to a 25.9% fail rate, making it disadvantageous for the archer.

Narratively, I kind of like this: when the shootin' is easy the extra flourish of fast draw is unlikely to affect the archer; when aiming for the eye through the snow on the run, the riskiness of trying to fire quickly is elevated.
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Old 11-13-2019, 06:13 PM   #12
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: Heroic Archer House Rule

The problem is that fast-draw really shouldn't be a skill in the first place, it should be a technique. I might generalize this as:

Fast Readying: if you have multiple attacks, you may spend one of them to ready. This includes multiple attacks from rapid strike, as long as the weapon being readied is the same one used to rapid strike.

Fast Draw: default skill-6, max skill. Allows draw and attack as a single attack (this is a special case of fast readying).
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Old 11-13-2019, 06:37 PM   #13
Brandy
 
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Default Re: Heroic Archer House Rule

Here's an old thread that has a couple of suggestions in it, including one from Kromm. It's not DF specific.
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Old 11-13-2019, 07:21 PM   #14
Kalzazz
 
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Default Re: Heroic Archer House Rule

I was going to post a link to that. In the name of Pentaphilia I'd make it cost 5 though.
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Old 11-13-2019, 09:01 PM   #15
evileeyore
 
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Default Re: Heroic Archer House Rule

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Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
I was going to post a link to that. In the name of Pentaphilia I'd make it cost 5 though.
Same. Just be sure to sprinkle plenty of eyeless, vitalless monsters in the mix to keep the Bowazon from instagibbing everything as soon as they can see it.
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Old 11-13-2019, 09:16 PM   #16
Kalzazz
 
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Default Re: Heroic Archer House Rule

That's what cutting arrows are for. Archers don't mind those types of foes.

What makes archers wake up screaming at night is enemies like Draugr, Sword Spirits, Skeletons, Watcher at the End of Time and other such things that simply dodge or block all the arrows
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Old 11-13-2019, 09:50 PM   #17
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Default Re: Heroic Archer House Rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalzazz View Post
That's what cutting arrows are for. Archers don't mind those types of foes.
Archers tend to have somewhat low base damage (strongbow, weapon master, and a composite bow gives a starting character 1d+5; by comparison, a knight with weapon master, striking ST +2, ST +1, and a broadsword does 3d+6).
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Old 11-13-2019, 10:06 PM   #18
Kalzazz
 
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Default Re: Heroic Archer House Rule

Sure, archers definitely are prone to hitting like a feather duster, but that pales in comparison to their inability to use deceptive attacks to try and hit at all

Your dodge loving foes like draugr (11 dodge + 2 from a shield) well you aren't going to hit enough to worry about hitting like a feather duster

As you gain CP and money you can work on the feather duster half oif the equation
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Old 11-13-2019, 11:29 PM   #19
evileeyore
 
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Default Re: Heroic Archer House Rule

Yeah, but until you can get your ST up to the upper teens and your skill up to soak a hefty minus (like -15 or so), Scout's damage barely cuts the mustard without vitals, eyes, impaling, etc...


Now, a 'properly made'* DF Ogre Scout can do some serious damage... when he drives the 3 inch diameter arrow shaft through the target and the wall behind the target...



* Read as "munchkined out the wahzoo". But then if you're going Ogre... why aren't you also going Barbarin and axe? Well, my Half-Ogre Scout who carries a ST 35 bow might be able to answer that question....
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Old 11-14-2019, 12:24 AM   #20
Kalzazz
 
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Default Re: Heroic Archer House Rule

Cutting is x1.5 vs the x2 of impaling, and you don't need to fuss around with physiology checks or anything to figure out where whatsits hide their vitals

I don't place a high priority on skill, for every enemy at a distance with eyes where you need skill you will run into another something SM+4 and homogeneous at 3 paces.

Getting Weapon Master and 2d-1 base damage is important, but I think Extra Attack is higher priority, in order to do damage you need to hit, and in order to hit enemies need to bomb defense rolls, so you need to provide them with more chances to do that

Axes by default can't be fast drawn, and thrown axes can be parried, so they are even less likely to find their targets
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