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Old 11-02-2019, 01:36 PM   #1
Kheoteour
 
Join Date: May 2014
Default Combat speed question

How is the speed of combat in DFRPG compared to regular GURPS? My group plays a regular GURPS game and, for me, the combat always felt very very slow. Is DRRPG much faster?

I do apologize if this was asked before. I searched the forums but did not find anything on this. If there is another thread on this topic that you know of please point me in that direction.

Thank you!
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Old 11-02-2019, 06:45 PM   #2
evileeyore
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Default Re: Combat speed question

Roughly the same. Though missing some options it might go a smig faster for your group if your group likes to get bogged down into the weeds of Techniques and options.
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Old 11-02-2019, 09:38 PM   #3
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Default Re: Combat speed question

Takes a focused group and a good gm to run fights quickly in any system with lots of options.
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Old 11-04-2019, 01:19 PM   #4
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Default Re: Combat speed question

This really is dependent more on the group than the system. I've had sessions of D&D and Pathfinder where people are fumbling their way through their action, taking upwards of five or ten minutes to figure out how many attacks they get, at what bonus, whether they want to use Power Attack or not, which feats apply, etc, etc. I've had sessions of GURPS where play takes less than a minute per player turn in a fight, frequently less than thirty seconds.

I've had the absolute reverse be true for d20 and for GURPS, though. It comes down to this:
-do the players know their characters well enough to know which of the system's options are good choices?
-are the players paying enough attention when it's not their turn, so that they can evaluate on the fly which of the good options is the one they want to use?
-does the GM know the system well enough to wing it if a player wants to do something unfamiliar?

When the answer to all of the above is 'yes', play goes quickly whether you're playing FATE, D&D, or GURPS. Even one 'no' can slow things to a crawl.
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Old 11-04-2019, 02:25 PM   #5
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Default Re: Combat speed question

I would say that overall the speed is faster, just because your scope is limited to the vagaries of GURPS and the complications that can be thrown into a fight, and playing characters with fairly high skills tends to cut down on indecisiveness about what action to take in a fight. Maybe you have one or two less questions due to the clearer cleaner representation of the rules.

However it's still GURPS, combat still has granular detail and lots of options, so it moves at the pace it moves.
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Old 11-04-2019, 02:34 PM   #6
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Default Re: Combat speed question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harald387 View Post
This really is dependent more on the group than the system. I've had sessions of D&D and Pathfinder where people are fumbling their way through their action, taking upwards of five or ten minutes to figure out how many attacks they get, at what bonus, whether they want to use Power Attack or not, which feats apply, etc, etc. I've had sessions of GURPS where play takes less than a minute per player turn in a fight, frequently less than thirty seconds.

I've had the absolute reverse be true for d20 and for GURPS, though. It comes down to this:
-do the players know their characters well enough to know which of the system's options are good choices?
-are the players paying enough attention when it's not their turn, so that they can evaluate on the fly which of the good options is the one they want to use?
-does the GM know the system well enough to wing it if a player wants to do something unfamiliar?

When the answer to all of the above is 'yes', play goes quickly whether you're playing FATE, D&D, or GURPS. Even one 'no' can slow things to a crawl.
If I could upvote this at all, I'd do it. If I could upvote it a million times, that too. I touched on this in a recent Roleplay Rescue podcast I was on.

At FNORDCon earlier this year, I ran two games of DFRPG in my Nordlond setting. Both were 12 or 13 players. Half of whom had never played GURPS. It was light, it was fast, it was fun. But that's because for each person I tuned my questions of "what do you do?" to their experience level, and turns went boom-boom-boom.

You have to be on your toes, prevent analysis paralysis by being forgiving and actually mastering the game (Sphynx: "If you want to GameMaster, you must first Master the Game." Mr Furious: "Don't you find these a bit formulaic?").
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Old 11-04-2019, 09:19 PM   #7
Dalin
 
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Default Re: Combat speed question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harald387 View Post
This really is dependent more on the group than the system.
This has been my experience too. As the group (and particularly the GM) gets more experienced, things move much more quickly. As Doug points out, a skilled GM can keep things flying even with a green group:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DouglasCole View Post
At FNORDCon earlier this year, I ran two games of DFRPG in my Nordlond setting. Both were 12 or 13 players. Half of whom had never played GURPS. It was light, it was fast, it was fun. But that's because for each person I tuned my questions of "what do you do?" to their experience level, and turns went boom-boom-boom.

You have to be on your toes, prevent analysis paralysis by being forgiving and actually mastering the game (Sphynx: "If you want to GameMaster, you must first Master the Game." Mr Furious: "Don't you find these a bit formulaic?").
This deserves some serious up-votes too.

It also depends on how much the group enjoys the combat mini-game. If they're into the second-by-second tactics, then I'm happy to luxuriate in bullet time. If a melee starts to feel like a slog, I'm happy to narrate the end of the battle and keep the plot moving.
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Old 11-07-2019, 11:15 AM   #8
Raekai
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Default Re: Combat speed question

I've been rolling around an idea in my head, and it seems like it might be a success. Making people make Trademark Moves (p. 53) for their character seems like a nice way to greatly speed up combat. A generous GM might give out actual Trademark Moves for free while a stricter GM might have them just write them out for 0 points and no bonus. Because I would happily hand them out for free if it meant faster combat, I think I would also let them change them up between sessions.

I'd be willing to give away five Trademark Moves and suggest that everyone have two melee options (one safe and one risky) and two ranged options (one safe and one risky) with the fifth option being whatever they want. It'd be fun for players to name them, or, at least, I know my players would be all over it.

At that point, even though it would no longer be the Trademark Move, it would be easier for them to make substitutions or add things on (e.g., "Well, this is usually a sword swing Deceptive Attack at -4 to the Neck at -5, but I want to do it with a sword thrust to the Vitals instead." "Okay," I'd say, "hitting the Vitals is -3 instead, so that's a total of -7. With that extra -2, you could also up your Deceptive Attack to give them -3 to defend for your usual -9 to attack." "That sounds awesome. You're the best GM in the world, Raekai.") I'd also suggest incorporating one All-Out Attack, one Deceptive Attack, and one Targeted Attack with suggestions for Dual-Weapon Attack or Rapid Strike if it fit the character.

Now, that I've typed this idea out, I like this it more and more. Then, if I wanted to be really punishing, I could have a timer, and, if they player can't come up with a different move in that amount of time, they have to choose one of their Trademark Moves. But I'd keep that dark twist in reserve and maybe save it for something nicer—like giving a rushed and hectic edge to a chaotic battle.

I hope that helps. Because I think that just helped me. (Don't look. I'm patting myself on the back.)
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Old 11-07-2019, 01:16 PM   #9
Anthony
 
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Default Re: Combat speed question

It's going to depend significantly on enemy type and preferred tactics. GURPS is inherently a bit slower at attack resolution than, say, D&D, but may make up for this by requiring fewer attacks to defeat a foe.

To land an attack in GURPS is:
  1. Make decisions about attack type to use.
  2. Adjust skill. This is generally one subtract action, if it happens.
  3. Roll 3d6 vs adjusted skill. This is two add actions and one compare.
  4. Target makes decisions about defenses.
  5. Adjust defenses. This is one add or subtract action. It may not always occur.
  6. Roll 3d6 vs adjusted defense. This is two add actions and one compare.
  7. If attack hits, roll damage (one or more add actions), apply DR (one subtract), apply wounding modifiers (one multiply, occurs probably the majority of the time), modify health (one subtract), and apply injury effects.
The total is 3 die rolls, 2 decisions, 5+ add actions, 2 compare actions, up to 1 multiply action, 4 subtract actions, and one status effect. Overall hit probability against similar skill is about 30%.

By comparison, in D&D the attack procedure is
  1. Make decisions about attack type to use.
  2. Roll d20 + attack bonus. One add action.
  3. Compare to AC. On a miss, we're done.
  4. If target has reactions, it makes decisions about them. Most targets do not.
  5. Roll damage. usually one add. If target has resistance, apply it (most either don't, or its bypassed).
  6. Modify health (one subtract)
That's 2 die rolls, 1+ decisions, 2+ adds, 1 compare, up to 1 multiply, 1 subtract, and zero status effects. Hit probability tends to be 50% or higher.

Overall, you can probably resolve about three D&D attacks in the time required to resolve one GURPS attack, and something like five hits. However, GURPS combatants generally require fewer hits to disable, so for experienced players I'm not convinced that GURPS is slower than mid level D&D (level 1 D&D is super fast).
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Old 11-07-2019, 02:09 PM   #10
Black Leviathan
 
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Default Re: Combat speed question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
Overall, you can probably resolve about three D&D attacks in the time required to resolve one GURPS attack, and something like five hits. However, GURPS combatants generally require fewer hits to disable, so for experienced players I'm not convinced that GURPS is slower than mid level D&D (level 1 D&D is super fast).
That's a solid-break down, but GURPS does add some additional wait time in the form of maneuvering and readying weapons or items. When you attack the attacks are of equivalent work but D&D and games of similar complexity are very loose with movement and action. In other games you can drink a potion, unsheath two weapons and write a brief treaties on the nature of conflict on your turn. GURPS is a bit more constrained in what you can do so you could end up going around the table a few times before you get a chance to roll an attack, especially if you're using low tech ranged weapons or if you start the fight separated from others.
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