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Old 02-02-2023, 01:40 AM   #1
Solomon Draak
 
Join Date: Jan 2023
Default Extra Effort or not?

Let's say a guy bench presses 100 kg ( 220 pounds ).
He concentrates, breaths deeply and does his best.
Yet he's in a safe, controlled environment ( with a couple guys ready to help if he can't lift the weight ) and it's not a competition, not even a bet. Jus a max effort exercise.

First question: since he's doing his best ( his best in that situation ), but it's not a dangerous or highly competitive situation, he's using Extra Effort or not?

Second question: a bench press lift done slowly and without special techniques ( no arching the back or bouncing ) means the Lifting skill is not being used? So can it be a precise measurement of a character Strenght?


Final question, if a character can bench press 100 kg more or less safely, with a slow non-bounced movement and without being in a life or death situation, what is his Strenght? ( I guess 13 )
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Old 02-02-2023, 04:32 AM   #2
Refplace
 
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Location: Yukon, OK
Default Re: Extra Effort or not?

I would say no on the Extra Effort.
To use Extra Effort here the character has to decide the penalty they want so should already know their benchmark and be trying to lift a heavier weight than that. They have to decide how hard to push (and the penalty to Will). Further there is a risk of injury if they critically fail, since they are rolling at a penalty this seems undesirable for a routine process.
More likely to see Extra Effort in a competition or some kind of contest - say a bet, or to impress someone.

Rules on Lifting need a few more examples.
ST 12 lets you bench press 100kg (230 lbs.) using two hands and taking 4 seconds. I think thats reasonable for power lifting as opposed to a higher rep weight training for endurance and tone.
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Old 02-02-2023, 09:13 AM   #3
Fred Brackin
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Default Re: Extra Effort or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solomon Draak View Post
First question: since he's doing his best ( his best in that situation ), but it's not a dangerous or highly competitive situation, he's using Extra Effort or not?

Second question: a bench press lift done slowly and without special techniques ( no arching the back or bouncing ) means the Lifting skill is not being used? So can it be a precise measurement of a character Strenght?


Final question, if a character can bench press 100 kg more or less safely, with a slow non-bounced movement and without being in a life or death situation, what is his Strenght? ( I guess 13 )
1.The Gurps extra Effort rules are generally not applicable to the Real World.

2. Lifting Skill is largely not applicable to the Real World either.

3. Bench press is one of the wrong lifts to use for Gurps measurement purposes. Basic gives some sort of answers for overhead lifts and powerlifting "dead lift" might be covered by the encumbrance rules.

The specific problem with Lifting Skill is that only very high levels (i.e. over 16) can be used reliably. What was the chance of failure our lifter ran? In 3e you could run the calcs backwards and add +5 or 10% to success for level of lifting that was below the calculated maximum but I don't think 4e works that way..
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Old 02-02-2023, 09:23 AM   #4
Refplace
 
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Default Re: Extra Effort or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
3. Bench press is one of the wrong lifts to use for Gurps measurement purposes. Basic gives some sort of answers for overhead lifts and powerlifting "dead lift" might be covered by the encumbrance rules.
Yeah what is decribed under Basic Lift is really more a dead lift. I was thinking a bench press would let you lift more since your braced and its a shorter distance but google tells me otherwise.
"A “typical” lifter will have ratios somewhere around 3:4:5 for bench, squat, deadlift. So deadlift would be 525lb if bench is 315lb. However, someone with short arms will have a better bench press and worse deadlift, and the reverse for someone with long arms."
Also this....
Bench Strength Standards: 1.2 times your body weight. Deadlift Strength Standards: 2 times your body weight. Overhead Press Strength Standards: 0.8 x body weight.
Perhaps the difference is you are using your legs to help you with a squat or deadlift.
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Last edited by Refplace; 02-02-2023 at 09:28 AM.
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Old 02-02-2023, 09:49 AM   #5
Fred Brackin
 
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Default Re: Extra Effort or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Refplace View Post
"[I]A “typical” lifter will have ratios somewhere around 3:4:5 for bench, squat, deadlift. t.
So if dead lift is the 10x BL that you can just barely lift off the ground that makes squat 8x BL and leaves bench press at 6x BL.
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Old 02-02-2023, 09:54 AM   #6
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Default Re: Extra Effort or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Brackin View Post
So if dead lift is the 10x BL that you can just barely lift off the ground that makes squat 8x BL and leaves bench press at 6x BL.
Which would be very useful to add to the Basic Set fir very little word count. Either under the Basic Lift section or more likely under Lifting as having it there for a weightlifter would be useful information.
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