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Old 12-22-2010, 07:16 PM   #1
Dangerious P. Cats
 
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Default Martial Arts styles based on historic fighting manuals

Has anyone ever tried to build a martial arts style based on historical manuals? What did you come up with? Also do you have any resources that might contrabute to doing this?
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Old 12-22-2010, 09:21 PM   #2
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I think that's what Kromm and TKD did when they wrote Martial Arts. Sorry, mine own style designs have all been fantasy, not historical. -GEF
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Old 12-22-2010, 10:52 PM   #3
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Default Re: Martial Arts styles based on historic fighting manuals

No, I have not. Why? Because it's already been done!

See GURPS Martial Arts

One of the best purchases I made.
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Word of God and Word of Kromm are pretty much the same thing in my book
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Old 12-22-2010, 11:38 PM   #4
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Default Re: Martial Arts styles based on historic fighting manuals

I have GURPS martial arts and most of the historical styles within are allaghams of all manner of manuals and techniques more akin to what modern re-enactors do than what would have been done historically. While I understand that breaking down the weapon systems by period and language would have been too cumbersom for a work of the book's scope it would be nice to have styles for i.33 sword and buckler or Hutton sabre (actually there's no sabre styles in the book beyond modern sports sabre) as opposed to just generic weapon styles, especially in a historical game.
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Old 12-23-2010, 01:11 AM   #5
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Default Re: Martial Arts styles based on historic fighting manuals

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Originally Posted by Dangerious P. Cats View Post
I have GURPS martial arts and most of the historical styles within are allaghams of all manner of manuals and techniques more akin to what modern re-enactors do than what would have been done historically.
The three styles in Martial Arts: Fairbairn Close Combat Systems are entirely based on historical manuals. It's an easy process to convert styles with Martial Arts in hand.

Cheers

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Old 12-23-2010, 05:41 AM   #6
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Default Re: Martial Arts styles based on historic fighting manuals

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Originally Posted by Dangerious P. Cats View Post
. While I understand that breaking down the weapon systems by period and language would have been too cumbersom for a work of the book's scope it would be nice to have styles for i.33 sword and buckler or Hutton sabre
Note, however, that most styles based on historical manuals would be strikingly similar, if not identical, in GURPS terms.
There are dozens of historical fighting manuals... and thousands more historical fighting teacher who did not publish a manual.
Yet there are only that many applicable GURPS maneuvers for each given weapon.
E.g. one could write dozens of minor variations of Longsword fighting (MA180) but what would be the point?
Longsword fighting already encompasses most if not all applicable techniques, so each variation would simply drop a couple of techniques, with no impact on actual play.
Let's say that Longsword fighting variant A drops "Targeted Attack (Two-Handed Sword Thrust/Face)" and "Knee strike", while Longsword fighting variant B drops "Ground Fighting (Knife)" and "Trip".
Obviously, most practitioners of both styles would actually improve just a small subset of all the style's applicable techniques (because it would be absurdly uneffective to do otherwise).
Therefore, you would not be able to tell a style A practitioner from a style B practitioner judging on their character sheet... because it is very likely that neither of them would actually improve any of Trip, TA (Face), Ground fighting or Knee strike...
Also, two individuals who practice the same styles, might actually be far more different from each other, than two individuals who practice 2 different styles (due to the techniques they actually choose to improve).

So I think that an over-categorization of styles would be just a futile mental exercise (and a huge loss of time ^^)
It is just below GURPS' resolution...
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Old 12-23-2010, 07:31 AM   #7
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Default Re: Martial Arts styles based on historic fighting manuals

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Originally Posted by Dangerious P. Cats View Post
it would be nice to have styles for i.33 sword and buckler or Hutton sabre (actually there's no sabre styles in the book beyond modern sports sabre) as opposed to just generic weapon styles, especially in a historical game.
Well, frankly, I just use the Hutton Saber style that you wrote! Is something wrong with it? Generally you're my go to forumite when it comes to historical European styles.

I did write a style based on this book once, but I lost it when my external hard drive died. I plan on revisiting it someday for the steampunk campaign I've always wanted to run, but it was never in widespread practice.

I've also done some work on Wudang Sword from a manual published in 1930, but I'm not ready to share it with the forums yet. It's also not as historical as you have in mind.
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Old 12-23-2010, 08:12 AM   #8
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Default Re: Martial Arts styles based on historic fighting manuals

I'm with the above. I did notice a lack of saber arts, though, and I have considered making a simple style oriented towards military sabre manuals; it's going to be a rather simple style, though.

M.
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Old 12-23-2010, 11:18 AM   #9
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Default Re: Martial Arts styles based on historic fighting manuals

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Originally Posted by Dangerious P. Cats View Post
I have GURPS martial arts and most of the historical styles within are allaghams of all manner of manuals and techniques more akin to what modern re-enactors do than what would have been done historically. While I understand that breaking down the weapon systems by period and language would have been too cumbersome for a work of the book's scope it would be nice to have styles for i.33 sword and buckler or Hutton sabre (actually there's no sabre styles in the book beyond modern sports sabre) as opposed to just generic weapon styles, especially in a historical game.
I'm not sure this is a problem. While some styles in MA are generic (Dagger Fighting, Sword and Shield), none of them is intended to represent a single teacher's art but a martial tradition (so "Longsword fighting" represents German longsword in general, not the version in one manuscript; "Nito Ryu" is that tradition not the exact way Musashi used it at any one point in his life). And historically, students often trained with several teachers, so narrowing a style description too much can be unrealistic too.

That said here is a write up based on one source and training in the tradition it is part of. I have a few more half-written ones, but I don't intend to polish them without a game I can use them in or someone paying me.
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Old 12-23-2010, 12:00 PM   #10
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That said here is a write up based on one source and training in the tradition it is part of. I have a few more half-written ones, but I don't intend to polish them without a game I can use them in or someone paying me.
......and only a few days ago on the Military Swordsmanship thread I said "If I found a sword style that taught Counterattack, Feint and Targeted attacks I'd ask what more did you want?" and here is that style. :)

If you want a _functional_ sword style this is what it's going tio look like. Other elements would probably not add much functionality.
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