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Old 10-29-2010, 04:26 PM   #1
lwhitehead
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Default AH Gurps setting British North America

Hi this setting were the American revolt in the 18th century failed the pod was Saratoga campaign, in one of my AH history book it's known as the Year of Hangman setting.

This setting was inspired by Action Comics #6 an Elseworld's annual, the clothes and goverment is 18th century like France is still ruled by the Bourbons the French revolt didn't happened.

Tech level is mixed, this is a Deselpunk/ Steampunk level like the Desel powerd Steam Carriage, but they have horse drawn Carriages as well.

LW
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Old 10-29-2010, 08:19 PM   #2
Ed the Coastie
 
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Default Re: AH Gurps setting British North America

Sounds like an interesting premise. Without a successful American Revolution and a subsequent French Revolution, I think it unlikely that the Mexican Revolution would have occurred. Alaska probably remains in Russia's possession for similar reasons, with Russian cultural influence extending possibly as far south as Oregon's Willamette Valley.

Beyond that, I would have to read your source material to see what else is going on. What is the Current Year?
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Old 10-29-2010, 09:33 PM   #3
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Default Re: AH Gurps setting British North America

I'd like to hear more about it. Sounds somewhat like The Two Georges.
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Old 10-30-2010, 08:40 AM   #4
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Default Re: AH Gurps setting British North America

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Originally Posted by Ed the Coastie View Post
Sounds like an interesting premise. Without a successful American Revolution and a subsequent French Revolution, I think it unlikely that the Mexican Revolution would have occurred. Alaska probably remains in Russia's possession for similar reasons, with Russian cultural influence extending possibly as far south as Oregon's Willamette Valley.

Beyond that, I would have to read your source material to see what else is going on. What is the Current Year?
Not just Mexico- it's possible that none of the revolutions in Spanish colonies in the New World would have succeeded- or even occured- without Napoleon deposing the rightful king of Spain. I don't want to seem as if I'm reducing everything to a single factor, because history is complex. It does seem to me that the break in authority/confusion of legitimacy in government caused by the French entry into Spain was a major factor in those subsequent colonial revolutions.
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Old 10-30-2010, 01:41 PM   #5
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Default Re: AH Gurps setting British North America

To further Combat Medic's point, Latin America would be very different. I assume the Bourbon monarchs of France would rule in Latin America in this world. Smuggling was vital to the North American ecconomy in the years before the American Revolution. Although the North American colonies were far larger and richer, the Carribean sugar islands produced concentraited wealth. This meant wealth sugar planters could go back to England and buy seats in Parliament. They were called The West India Interest. They voted their interests, as any gentleman was expected too. No one represented North American interests.

Given a brutal victory in 1777, the American ecconomy would collapse. The British ecconomy would go through sustained bad times and stagnation because their key American ecconomic partners would be crushed. France would gain a relative edge in European politics because of British stagnation.

As Spain was in a steady decline in this period, and only kept hold of Latin America because no one else wanted the French to take them away from Spain, the relative decline/stagnation of England gives France the opportunity to act.

I assume this would mean that either France would hold most of Spain's former colonies, or England and France would split them.

As the tropical colonies were highly valued, this could lead to a world were North America is an improverished backwater and Latin America is a vital center of commerce and wealth.


Added note: A British victory in the American Revolution would lead either to an elimination or severe reduction of American educational opportunities. Parliament and the Crown both felt that colleges in America were a bad thing and that education of Americans was not a good thing. I wonder if any of them have changed their minds yet?
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Old 10-30-2010, 04:53 PM   #6
Ed the Coastie
 
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Default Re: AH Gurps setting British North America

I read a bit about the source material. The PoD appears to have been the intervention of an adult Kryptonian on the side of the British during the American Revolution. The Kryptonian went on to become effectively world emperor, and no subsequent revolutions succeeded because he ruthlessly suppressed them.
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Old 10-30-2010, 09:07 PM   #7
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Default Re: AH Gurps setting British North America

An AH like this could be set up without a Kryptonian's intervention. If John Burgoyne had succeeded in his drive to take Albany in 1777, the British could have cut New England off from the rest of the Colonies and effectively crushed the rebellion.
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Old 10-30-2010, 09:39 PM   #8
Hans Rancke-Madsen
 
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Default Re: AH Gurps setting British North America

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Originally Posted by quarkstomper View Post
An AH like this could be set up without a Kryptonian's intervention. If John Burgoyne had succeeded in his drive to take Albany in 1777, the British could have cut New England off from the rest of the Colonies and effectively crushed the rebellion.
Ed is talking about subsequent revolutions. As the American colonies grow in population, London will either have to modify its policies sufficiently to increase the number of (American) Tories or face another revolution by a more powerful population.

OTOH, Canada remained loyal, so I don't think it is inconceivable that the American colonies might also stay loyal. Perhaps examining the differences between British treatment of the American colonies and Canada might suggest how that could come about?


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Old 10-31-2010, 01:39 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Ed the Coastie View Post
I read a bit about the source material. The PoD appears to have been the intervention of an adult Kryptonian on the side of the British during the American Revolution. The Kryptonian went on to become effectively world emperor, and no subsequent revolutions succeeded because he ruthlessly suppressed them.
His longevity and conservative disposition also explained why fashions were largely frozen for generation after generation. Usually, they shouldn't be. Innovation, even the trivial mutations of fashion and architecture ordinarily wouldn't stop just because someone rescues the British or Roman Empire from the dustbin.
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Old 10-31-2010, 08:04 AM   #10
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In fact, some patriotic Canadians did rebel in the first half of the 19th century.
Er... patriots, by definition, do not rebel.

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That said, whether the Upper and Lower Canada Rebellions would have occured without the example and proximity of the United States is a fair question.
Some of the "1837 rebellions" were fomented by US interests (private, not government), so it's likely that any North American rebellions in this timeline would have been smaller and less-organized, and thus easier to control.
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