The continuing life of the GURPS WWII line

[Z09SS]

Sadurian Mike, if it makes you feel any better, the US is not mentioned at all in all but one of the Harry Potter books. And the mention it does get is merely naming a group of people from Salem, Massachusetts.

The IL2 boards are dominated by posters from Britain, nearly shutting us poor Yanks out of the discussion. The supplement for the major US theater is widely regarded as the worst one of the series. In fact they are so vocal the developer is making a Battle of Britain sim (the most popular flight sim setting by a very wide margin).

And the UK got a book about them, Japan and USSR didn't! How must the Russian gamers feel about essentially being written out of GURPS history when they did the lion's share of the fighting?

Hans is correct, it's an American company, in a mostly American market with a small export market. That makes a product that has an American perspective. That means pounds and inches, color instead of colour, stripper clips instead of chargers, steering wheel on the left, trunk not boot, hood not bonnet, elevator not lift, smoke not *** (interesting what gets censored when there isn't a context checker), and the discovery that there is a world outside our borders on 08Dec1941.

Are you mad or smiling? I hope smiling.

From dealing with Brits while I was in Germany, I am convinced you guys should get English translations of this stuff instead of what we use for language and call English.

I tend to agree with you about what was omitted, it seems hard to do a pre-D-Day campaign if you are not playing German, USSR or Eastern Europe. My favorite (favourite?) campaign area is North Africa. Gobs and gobs of missing stuff for that theater (theatre?).

[Sadurian Mike]

Originally Posted by sn0wball

The T-26 is included in Frozen Hell, along with the Vickers Armstrong 6 ton Mark E.

Thanks sn0wball, I may have a peek at that.

[Sadurian Mike]

Originally Posted by Z09SS

Sadurian Mike, if it makes you feel any better, the US is not mentioned at all in all but one of the Harry Potter books. And the mention it does get is merely naming a group of people from Salem, Massachusetts.

I've never read them, I'm afraid, and only seen one of the films (the one with the big snake). It doesn't make me feel a lot better, I have to say, because my point was about a WWII US-bias in a published game, rather than a random fictional book series. A better analogy would have been to say that the US didn't feature in a book about car manufacturing, or aircraft, or C19th pioneers.

Originally Posted by Z09SS

The IL2 boards are dominated by posters from Britain, nearly shutting us poor Yanks out of the discussion. The supplement for the major US theater is widely regarded as the worst one of the series. In fact they are so vocal the developer is making a Battle of Britain sim (the most popular flight sim setting by a very wide margin).

Well, to be fair, how many other battles can you name that were almost entirely fought in the air, Midway excepted because it was a naval clash?

Originally Posted by Z09SS

And the UK got a book about them, Japan and USSR didn't! How must the Russian gamers feel about essentially being written out of GURPS history when they did the lion's share of the fighting?

The USSR and Japan had supplements on the way but they were cancelled. In any case, I was talking about the core rulebook; a supplement is always going to focus on one aspect, that's its reason to be. I would have had no issues at all with a US supplement, and would be positively delighted to see a USSR or Japan supplement appear. Not a lot of hope for that, I'm afraid.

Originally Posted by Z09SS

Hans is correct, it's an American company, in a mostly American market with a small export market. That makes a product that has an American perspective. That means pounds and inches, color instead of colour, stripper clips instead of chargers, steering wheel on the left, trunk not boot, hood not bonnet, elevator not lift, smoke not *** (interesting what gets censored when there isn't a context checker), and the discovery that there is a world outside our borders on 08Dec1941.

Are you mad or smiling? I hope smiling.

I am resigned really. I'm not angry really, because I accept that SJG is a US company, but I brought the point up to suggest one reason the line might have been improved with regards to us non-US customers.

Originally Posted by Z09SS

From dealing with Brits while I was in Germany, I am convinced you guys should get English translations of this stuff instead of what we use for language and call English.

I tend to agree with you about what was omitted, it seems hard to do a pre-D-Day campaign if you are not playing German, USSR or Eastern Europe. My favorite (favourite?) campaign area is North Africa. Gobs and gobs of missing stuff for that theater (theatre?).

Not only that, I think Burma and the mainland war against the Japanese gets about three lines maximum!

I know you can't cover everything in one book, but this is the problem I see with GURPS: WWII. It not only doesn't cover everything, what it does cover is too heavily biased towards the US. As a core book and a springboard for future work, I would have preferred a wider purview and more examples from other nations. The vehicles section is a an example; 4 US, 4 German and 1 USSR vehicle. Fine for (as you say) post D-Day US versus German, but not a lot of good for the rest.

Bloody hell, you guys only turned up once the party had been going for two years! You can't turn up that late and then expect to get all the booze and best seats.

;oD

[jericson]

Originally Posted by Sadurian Mike

I know you can't cover everything in one book, but this is the problem I see with GURPS: WWII. It not only doesn't cover everything, what it does cover is too heavily biased towards the US. As a core book and a springboard for future work, I would have preferred a wider purview and more examples from other nations. The vehicles section is a an example; 4 US, 4 German and 1 USSR vehicle. Fine for (as you say) post D-Day US versus German, but not a lot of good for the rest.

The problem with that is you end with a basic book that covers nothing and no one sufficiently to be of any use to anyone without buying the additional supplements first. Which will annoy lots and lots of people, and the bad word of mouth, and following low sales, will ensure that those additional, needed, supplements will never be printed.

Don't get me wrong, I get your point, and it is valid - I just don't see that the option you are suggesting is particularly viable from a business perspective. But then, what do I know about it - I work in IT, not publishing... :)

Originally Posted by Sadurian Mike

Bloody hell, you guys only turned up once the party had been going for two years! You can't turn up that late and then expect to get all the booze and best seats.

;oD

Yeah, but if you show up too early and are too proactive, well, then everyone complains about that, and how you're an imperialist warmonger, etc etc etc... :)

But, yeah, I'd have loved that USSR book. Guess I need to break down and buy those PDFs, though I am not normally much of a fan of them.

[ronom]

Also Sadurian Mike, Lend/Lease means US proliferation of vehicles waay before US troops joined UK forces on the line. Even though the UK held on/held out so the world could rally.

[Sadurian Mike]

Originally Posted by ronom

Also Sadurian Mike, Lend/Lease means US proliferation of vehicles waay before US troops joined UK forces on the line. Even though the UK held on/held out so the world could rally.

Lend Lease started in October 1941 (though it had been approved in May that year). That is 2 years (a third of the war) of home-brewed equipment in use before the US started helping out.

I don't think anyone would fail to acknowledge that us equipment was prevelant later in the war, but it would have been nice to see some write-ups for equipment from France, Britain, Italy, Poland, or one of the smaller nations in the core book to show a breadth of coverage. Sure, other nations get covered in supplements, but then the US also has its own supplement.

I accept that conventions like US spelling and the US-style $ are going to be in a US-written book; you have to choose some standard presentation and your native one makes sense. Coverage of WWII, however, is a different matter.

[Andrew Hackard]

Originally Posted by Sadurian Mike

I don't think anyone would fail to acknowledge that us equipment was prevelant later in the war, but it would have been nice to see some write-ups for equipment from France, Britain, Italy, Poland, or one of the smaller nations in the core book to show a breadth of coverage.

Why? None of them won the war.

[joelbf]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard

Why? None of them won the war.

Thats just silly. By that standard the core book should be full of Soviet vehicles.

[AmesJainchill]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard

Why? None of them won the war.

I hope this was a sarcastic comment.

[Michele]

Originally Posted by Boobis

Thats just silly. By that standard the core book should be full of Soviet vehicles.

I don't think I'd go that far - but, at least, by that standard the core book should not have included German or Japanese vehicles, eh? ;-)